[Geek]

This card is just too grainy, almost as bad as my old turtle beach soundcard. It has better imaging, detail, and soundstage, but any way to fix the graininess? It's making my head explode

I'm using 32-bit @ 96,000khz through foobar2000 playing .flac.

Cheers,
Geek

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

External DAC?

Seriously, I have never found this card to be grainy, the way my old Game Theater XP was by comparison. Perhaps it is grainy compared to that multi-$K vinyl setup you lust for, however.

 

[Geek]

That's what I was afraid of

I mean, it's really the only weak point of the card, and it's minor one you start using ridiculously high sample/bitrates, but I'm probably expecting too much hehe.

Muwahaha, only 100 more CDs of ripping to go

Cheers,
Geek

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

Quote:

Originally posted by Geek Muwahaha, only 100 more CDs of ripping to go

I know what you're feeling there

 

[Wodgy]

There are probably two separate things going on: grainyness and the AD1852's trademark sound.

Grainyness is usually caused by the analog output stage that follows the DAC itself. Obviously with a sound card there are necessary compromises in the analog stage, since there isn't space for a separate analog power supply, a proper grounding scheme, etc. One solution (if you're handy with a soldering iron) would be to bypass the RME's output stage with a pair of Edcor or Lundahl transformers. This would probably be a dramatic improvement, but for space reasons you'd have to mount the transformers in a box outside the computer.

The other thing you may be hearing is the AD1852 DAC chip's trademark sound: very detailed, huge dynamic range, but also very dry and somewhat cold. It also has a bit of an upper midrange stridency that I've never quite been able to get rid of, even with separate clean linear power supplies for the both the analog and digital sections. This, combined with a grainy output stage, can get kind of fatiguing, if you're looking for a warm, natural sound. I have had a lot of luck using output transformers with this particular DAC chip though.

 

[Geek]

Wodgy,

That's exactly what I'm hearing. You hit it right on the money.

Then again, the sound is quite amazing with the right recordings: if it's audiophile level, I don't feel fatigued at all after some extended listening. On the other hand, nickelback's CDs and, say, the deftones, will drive my poor head insane after a minute or two! It's amazing what this card can do to unveil the true nature of a recording.

Cheers,
Geek

 

[Geek]

Upon further listening, I've decided that at its maximum bitrate and sample rate, the reason for my graininess is rather simple: bad recordings! When listening to a CD such as the Meat Beat Manifesto's Actual Sounds + Voices, or Eat Static's Epsylon, or some rock such as Nickelback, the sound is horridly grainy. When switching to the M-Audio test CD and this great recording of Itzhak Perlman playing the Tchaikovsky violin concerto, the annoying overtexturing I hear is virtually gone! Natural tone returns to the music, with real cymbals, full deep powerful bass, and above all a relatively clean high end.

It seems I underestimated this card.

Cheers,
Geek

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

Told ya so!

I notice similar problems with poorer recorded stuff that goes away when I switch to great-sounding material.

 

[Edwood]

Garbage in , garbage.......yadda yadda yadda.....

It get's even worse (or better, depending on your point of view), when you throw an amp like the Grace 901, and the K1000's into the mix.

I actually found the RME PAD's DAC to be smoother than the smART DI/O. But then again, Iron and I used the best recordings we had to test them out. I guess we're spoiled.

-Ed

 

[Wodgy]

Yes, the AD1852 is one of the more brutal, unforgiving DACs around. I've used it in DIY designs, and have played around with various output stages for it. Combined with the limitations of a sound card style analog output stage, it's just never going to be a forgiving sound. Some people will love this, others will hate it. I eventually decided the AD1852 sound (even with a great analog section) was not for me, but detail freaks will love it. I'd imagine the slight upper midrange stridency is something some people can live with, while others can't.

If you don't want to try the transformer mod, you might want to consider replacing the output coupling caps with something better. It's a simple mod, but sometimes this can have an impact on grainyness.

 

[pbirkett]

Would something like Meier's Analoguer not help with this problem?

 

[lan]

Quote:

Originally posted by Edwood I actually found the RME PAD's DAC to be smoother than the smART DI/O.

Or maybe the DI/O is even more revealing.

 

[mulveling]

Quote:

Originally posted by Wodgy The other thing you may be hearing is the AD1852 DAC chip's trademark sound: very detailed, huge dynamic range, but also very dry and somewhat cold. It also has a bit of an upper midrange stridency that I've never quite been able to get rid of, even with separate clean linear power supplies for the both the analog and digital sections. This, combined with a grainy output stage, can get kind of fatiguing, if you're looking for a warm, natural sound. I have had a lot of luck using output transformers with this particular DAC chip though.

Glad to know I'm not the only one. That's exactly how I feel about my digi 96/8 PAD, and why I haven't used it in a while. Too dry for my tastes, I find my warmer & richer sounding panny rp91 much more pleasing, even though it has slightly less detail (very slightly, to my ears) than the PAD. I'm using HD600's with a gilmore V2, so if you have those, don't throw a PAD into the mix unless you don't mind very dry and analytical. Of course, if I had a warmer sounding amp my source preference may change.

 

[Glassman]

can someone take a macro of the analog output circuitry of their RME? I'd be very interested.. wanna add this baby to my 'modded' list

 

[tigre]

Geek, do you use replaygain or something comparable (lower volume in fb2k's volume control) to avoid clipping? Especially resampling of loud (overcompressed) material can lead to clipping - maybe this is a reason for the 'graininess' you hear with some CDs (as English is not my 1st language I'm not completely sure if I've got the right idea about what 'grainy' means in this case, though).