[Onetwothree]

You’re making a big assumption about how much at least some people posting here know (or don’t know) about the health risks posed by post manufactured use of Vapor Deposited Beryllium tweeters. While nothing in life is absolutely safe, in most homes VPD Beryllium tweeters wouldn’t make the top 100 of dangerous substances found in the average household.

Anyone worried about VPD Beryllium should immediately stop using their computers, cellphones, and most other electronics. Then get rid of almost all cleaning products including those used for personal hygiene. And as you suggest, most types of food should be abandoned as well.

Or we could use reason, knowledge, and logic to make rational decisions about product safety. We still manage to eat apples despite the relatively high levels of cyanide in apple seeds.....

How many homes actually have vapor deposited Beryllium tweeters? I would assume very few given the niche market. This also isn't about making a top 100 list, it is about an individuals exposure to a substance.

If I buy a new home I'm not going to be concerned about lead paint and asbestos, even if they represent the number 1 and 2 health hazards in a top 100 list because obviously, a new home wouldn't have those substances. What's important to the individual are the potential dangers that individual may be exposed to, not where they fall on some list.

And I never suggested anything about abandoning most types of food or getting rid of electronic devices.

You are making a very common mistake that many people make, which is putting all toxic substances at the same level, and throwing up your hands and saying, "well everything is toxic so who cares about anything being toxic".

As I said, exposure level is just as important as the toxicity of the chemical, the two go hand in hand. If you have too much iron in your blood you will develop certain diseases, if you have too little iron, you will also develop certain diseases. We are told in general that heavy metals are bad for our health, iron is a heavy metal.

Understanding exposure and toxicity is complicated and unfortunately, the average person does not have enough of a science background to be able to analyze all of this information. This is why we have people posting crazy things on the internet like water that is slightly acidic being "terrible" for our health. These very same people have no issue drinking soda or drinking and eating lemonade which is several magnitudes more acidic.

Going back to the OP, as I said before, Focal is in a bit of a lose lose scenario. If they reply they open themselves up to potential legal issues but not replying can also look suspicious.

 

[hpeter]

I currently own a pair of Focal Elear and I absolutly adore them. I love them so much that I have been thinking of upgrading to the Utopia's. I have been writing Focal a few times in regards to Beryllium being toxic and should there be any concern about having this strapped around your head for hours at a time.
I first wrote to them about a month ago about my concern. They did write back to me letting me know they would get back to me shortly regarding my concern, they never did.
I have now written to them several times and have not heard back.

Does anyone know for certain if there should be any concern about having Beryllium in a headphone?

The commercial use of beryllium requires the use of appropriate dust control equipment and industrial controls at all times because of the toxicity of inhaled beryllium-containing dusts that can cause a chronic life-threatening allergic disease in some people called berylliosis.[6]

As a free element it is a steel-gray, strong, lightweight and brittle alkaline earth metal.
Beryllium does not form oxides until it reaches very high temperatures.

BeO is carcinogenic and may cause chronic beryllium disease.

Some possible risk is there, they even make these speakers. Let´s hope they minimized risks over the years.
What raises my eyebrows, is the brittleness factor, and (maybe) manufacturing chance to create oxide/dust on surfaces.
------
from customer strandponit, it is OK to ask questions about product, you paid (big) money for it.
Denial, defensive behaviour will not help

 

[iAudio365]

I am neither interested in BE things nor pushing this inquiry going foward.

What is interesting to me is the fact that many people are voluntarily (and aggresively in some cases) defending a company like Focal.

I fully see your point, it may appear as though I’m defending focal with some of my comments, but I don’t work for them, I have nothing to gain from having opinion that appears in focals favour I just use logic and common sense.

As stated above beryillium is used in so many consumer products it’s not even funny, chances are that the very pc, phone etc that op is typing all his responses on or uses at work has it inside it as well and yet his main concern is some headphones?

I just use logic here and make my purchase decissions accordingly and from my own research prior to even going near utopias I read up on everything and went from there and bought them, 2 months in and I’m still here to tell the tale

 

[ProtegeManiac]

from customer strandponit, it is OK to ask questions about product, you paid (big) money for it.
Denial, defensive behaviour will not help

There's asking questions, and then there's pounding it into people's heads that according to one's internet research mercury is a poison and therefore vaccines are poison since they use(a type of inert) mercury as a preservative. That's why people are asking if anyone here is literally snorting their Elears.

Then again, this is an audio forum, which has the sort of people who think there is scientific data that backs up how fantastic $10,000 cables are.

 

[Whazzzup]

I’d just worry if your head catches fire while wearing your utopias. Or breathing in deeply the smoke from your burning utopias. I think fire at any rate could be a problem but when isn’t

 

[Onetwothree]

I fully see your point, it may appear as though I’m defending focal with some of my comments, but I don’t work for them, I have nothing to gain from having opinion that appears in focals favour I just use logic and common sense.

As stated above beryillium is used in so many consumer products it’s not even funny, chances are that the very pc, phone etc that op is typing all his responses on or uses at work has it inside it as well and yet his main concern is some headphones?

I just use logic here and make my purchase decissions accordingly and from my own research prior to even going near utopias I read up on everything and went from there and bought them, 2 months in and I’m still here to tell the tale

I know that historically beryllium has been used in computers but I wouldn't be able to say if it continues to be. Regardless of that, electronic components sit inside a case. If my laptop or phone has beryllium in it, you wouldn't be exposed to it from dropping it and again, I go back to concentration levels. Computers and phones will not have large amounts of beryllium, it is used in small portions mixed with other alloys so the concentration level is small. The risk would really be with those recycling the materials.

From what I have read here, Focal provides handling instructions because of the potential risk to the end user. A speaker tweeter can break leading to a potential health hazard, there is no such risk with the beryllium inside something like a phone or laptop so you example does not actually work.

Also, just because you've been using the headphones and you are alive 2 years later does not necessarily mean it is safe. Going back to my asbestos example, if you are exposed to asbestos, you do not necessarily or immediately develop cancer. The disease can take several years to develop.

I also won't die from second hand smoke but depending on the level of exposure, it could lead to zero health risks or to cancer.

 

[Onetwothree]

There's asking questions, and then there's pounding it into people's heads that according to one's internet research mercury is a poison and therefore vaccines are poison since they use(a type of inert) mercury as a preservative. That's why people are asking if anyone here is literally snorting their Elears.

Then again, this is an audio forum, which has the sort of people who think there is scientific data that backs up how fantastic $10,000 cables are.

Mercury is a poison but mercury comes in different forms and some forms of it are more dangerous than others. The mercury used in vaccines is not inert, if it was inert it wouldn't be used, but it is less toxic than the elemental form found in something like a thermometer. The exposure one receives in vaccines is also small, so again, exposure level is important. And mercury is used in vaccines for sterilization purposes in multidose vaccines. A multidose vaccine is a vaccine held in a container that will be used for multiple patients and will have multiple needles inserted into the container. Even though a nurse giving a vaccine would use a different needle for every patient, there's a small risk that one of the needle she uses could have some bacteria in it that would contaminate the entire vaccine leading to a very dangerous situation. The mercury keeps the vaccine sterile.

The mercury being phased out of vaccines is due to the publics concern, not because of an inherent medical concern. If you don't want to be exposed to mercury through a vaccine, you can ask for the single dose version. As the name implies, a single dose version is a vaccine used one time, which means there is no need to use mercury to keep a vile sterilized.

The mercury in vaccine issue is another example of the average person not having the science background to analyze the information available.

 

[up late]

I know that historically beryllium has been used in computers but I wouldn't be able to say if it continues to be. Regardless of that, electronic components sit inside a case. If my laptop or phone has beryllium in it, you wouldn't be exposed to it from dropping it and again, I go back to concentration levels. Computers and phones will not have large amounts of beryllium, it is used in small portions mixed with other alloys so the concentration level is small. The risk would really be with those recycling the materials.

From what I have read here, Focal provides handling instructions because of the potential risk to the end user. A speaker tweeter can break leading to a potential health hazard, there is no such risk with the beryllium inside something like a phone or laptop so you example does not actually work.

Also, just because you've been using the headphones and you are alive 2 years later does not necessarily mean it is safe. Going back to my asbestos example, if you are exposed to asbestos, you do not necessarily or immediately develop cancer. The disease can take several years to develop.

I also won't die from second hand smoke but depending on the level of exposure, it could lead to zero health risks or to cancer.

yes, it does come with a pamphlet about beryllium (a copy of which was posted earlier in the thread) and precautions for its use, including handling instructions if the "beryllium dome" is damaged. it is clear from the pamphlet that beryllium is a toxic material and a potential health hazard. returning to the topic of this thread, the op asked: "I have been writing Focal a few times in regards to Beryllium being toxic and should there be any concern about having this strapped around your head for hours at a time"; and "Does anyone know for certain if there should be any concern about having Beryllium in a headphone?" again, i think it's fair to say that it is impossible for anyone here to answer his questions factually beyond saying that beryllium is toxic. the discussion about the health risks associated with using the utopia headphone has been speculative at best, and citing examples of human exposure to other hazardous materials is ultimately not relevant to the op's specific concerns.

 

[BLacklWf]

I fully see your point, it may appear as though I’m defending focal with some of my comments, but I don’t work for them, I have nothing to gain from having opinion that appears in focals favour I just use logic and common sense.

As stated above beryillium is used in so many consumer products it’s not even funny, chances are that the very pc, phone etc that op is typing all his responses on or uses at work has it inside it as well and yet his main concern is some headphones?

I just use logic here and make my purchase decissions accordingly and from my own research prior to even going near utopias I read up on everything and went from there and bought them, 2 months in and I’m still here to tell the tale

The typical use of beryllium is far less than a gram - milligrams in most cases. Not many products use solid beryllium like Focal's headphones. So, I think OP's question is valid. Once upon a time, people thought the lead paint was perfectly safe because all the big companies used it. But, we now know what resulted from such kind of mentality. I personally have no idea whether beryllium in Focal has the potential to cause a health problem or not, but I believe a debate like this is healthy whether it's a relatively new product or an established product.

 

[Onetwothree]

yes, it does come with a pamphlet about beryllium (a copy of which was posted earlier in the thread) and precautions for its use, including handling instructions if the "beryllium dome" is damaged. it is clear from the pamphlet that beryllium is a toxic material and a potential health hazard. returning to the topic of this thread, the op asked: "I have been writing Focal a few times in regards to Beryllium being toxic and should there be any concern about having this strapped around your head for hours at a time"; and "Does anyone know for certain if there should be any concern about having Beryllium in a headphone?" again, i think it's fair to say that it is impossible for anyone here to answer his questions factually beyond saying that beryllium is toxic. the discussion about the health risks associated with using the utopia headphone has been speculative at best, and citing examples of human exposure to other hazardous materials is ultimately not relevant to the op's specific concerns.

You're right that it is unlikely that anyone here will be able to answer the OP's question in any credible form but the examples to other hazardous materials were to cite reasons on why it is so difficult to provide an answer and to also provide some background on how toxic materials can affect us. An understanding of how exposure levels and paths of exposure can affect us leads to a broader understanding that helps people assess information, so without a definitive answer from an expert, it is much more useful than simply saying "we don't know".

Laying the foundation for a better understanding is incredibly relevant.

 

[up late]

you're drawing a long bow here. the examples of exposure to other hazardous materials and how they can affect us doesn't shed any light on the op's specific concerns. i don't see a nexus between mesothelioma, lung cancer caused by cigarette smoke (or coal miners' pneumoconiosis for that matter) and berylliosis, beyond them being serious lung diseases caused by exposure to very different hazardous sources. rather than being "incredibly relevant" to the topic of this thread, i regard them as tenuous at best. i also question how non-expert conjecture and "junk science" as you put it, is any more useful than admitting that we simply "don't know". i'm all for "laying the foundation for a better understanding" but a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing as they say.

 

[franz12]

I fully see your point, it may appear as though I’m defending focal with some of my comments, but I don’t work for them, I have nothing to gain from having opinion that appears in focals favour I just use logic and common sense.

As stated above beryillium is used in so many consumer products it’s not even funny, chances are that the very pc, phone etc that op is typing all his responses on or uses at work has it inside it as well and yet his main concern is some headphones?

I just use logic here and make my purchase decissions accordingly and from my own research prior to even going near utopias I read up on everything and went from there and bought them, 2 months in and I’m still here to tell the tale

Just out of curiosity, I did brief research about BE. I also found some chinese IEM like whizzer a15 adopted BE driver.

I tentatively concluded transparent and clear focal sound is due to BE material. Focal exploited their knowledge about their expensive speakers and trickled down this technology into their headphones.

What I want to say is that how to apply BE material in their speakers and headphones to generate clear sound may be one of their core technology and trade secrets. It is quite obvious to me that focal will be very defensive about it. I don’t want to defend anyone here. This is just my understanding about the situation.

 

[canthearyou]

This particular event happened last summer on my uncle's farm in Virginia. My brother and I had just finished cutting a field of hay and were enjoying the evening meal under the shade of an elm tree. He went down for water by the creek and when he was gone, I took a bowl that was filled with delicious plum pudding and placed into it, not one, but two large pieces of sheep shiit. When he returned I encouraged him to taste the plum pudding... And as sure as Im standing before you, he did! He ate it all. Shiit Pudding!

To be perfectly honest with you sir, I have no brother. It was me. I ate sheep shiit! Swear to God.

 

[Onetwothree]

you're drawing a long bow here. the examples of exposure to other hazardous materials and how they can affect us doesn't shed any light on the op's specific concerns. i don't see a nexus between mesothelioma, lung cancer caused by cigarette smoke (or pneumoconiosis for that matter) and berylliosis, beyond them being serious lung diseases caused by exposure to very different hazardous sources. rather than being "incredibly relevant" to the topic of this thread, i regard them as tenuous at best. i also question how non-expert conjecture and "junk science" as you described it, is any more useful than admitting that we simply "don't know". i'm all for "laying the foundation for a better understanding" but a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing as they say.

The comments I made were in regards to various concerns and misinformation being spread and not only directly about the concerns of the OP. My comments were also to explain why Focal may not be able to give a response or why Focal may not even have the information. You seem to have a difficult time putting things together so I'll spell it out a little more clearly for you.

1. The OP had a concern of the Beryllium being so close to his head but Beryllium is not a radioactive material, just being near it will not cause any health issues. So the path of exposure is important. Just being near asbestos will not harm you, it only leads to issues if your breath it in. Is anyone breathing any Beryllium from Focal products? Unless there is Beryllium dust on their products then no. How much of a health concern it would be if the Beryllium were to break is another issue. And a little knowledge is a dangerous thing when it leads a person to the false idea that they have a full understanding of an idea or concept. It does the opposite when people realize that they actually don't understand something and that there are things they don't know.
2. Various people were making comments along the lines of, "there are so much toxic materials around us so who cares if anything is toxic". This is where "a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing". These people make these comments because they don't realize how much they don't understand. By providing examples of how materials affect us they can glean a little understanding on the complexities of this topic, quite the opposite of coming away feeling like they are experts.
3. Someone made the comment that a material must be safe if they have safely used it for years. So I gave the example of how it took decades to realize the dangers of asbestos so simply one person using it for years does not necessarily mean it is safe.

That's just what I can think of off memory. I say all of this realizing that you really don't have any interest in actually learning anything but I feel the urge to dispute the misinformation you put out for the sake of anyone that is interested.

 

[youngarthur]

If you have concerns about a product, don't buy it, let people make their own choices.It does not matter if its made of material from a Nuclear Reactor,or the cheapest plastic, its your choice. Beats Lovers/Haters,as an example, they are both right, its their choice, their money after all.