[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mektarus I've seen this mentioned a couple of time. What is it, where isit available and how much does it cost?

It's a new DIY design (like MINT, PIMETA, PPA, etc). AFAIK they're not available yet, as the design isn't quite off the drawing board.

http://headwize.com/ubb/showpage.php?fnum=3&tid=5806

I read most of the above discussion, and altho I'm not an expert (electronics courses but very little DIY experience) it looks seriously promising

.

 

[Rickio]

quickly scanning the PINT link it sounds to be a awesome amp. comparablle to the hornet and xin's macro.

i will be glad to hear more when its finally out.

 

[Onix]

Warren (Tangent) is another very nice guy. And a genius, that thing is so tiny! And with dual 9v batteries! If it goes around 100 bucks it would really be a bargain.

 

[mektarus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onix Warren (Tangent) is another very nice guy. And a genius, that thing is so tiny! And with dual 9v batteries! If it goes around 100 bucks it would really be a bargain.

Any idea how close he is to actually building these?

 

[Onix]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mektarus Any idea how close he is to actually building these?

According to the link he's still on the testing stages, so who knows? I think he's gonna wait until he's sattisfied with the end product and has some debugging done. It could be a while.

 

[Edwood]

FYI, Tangent sells the parts, but does not offer services for building the amps. You can order parts, but you will have to build them yourself or find someone that can.

As for the PIMETA, that's going to be on the large side, though. The PCB is quite a bit larger than the others listed in this thread so far.

-Ed

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotJeffBuckley You're taking his word as canon, and while I understand your reasoning I have to question his definition of "under demanding conditions" before I accept it. PM him and get it for me? I know you won't disclose the name, but I'd like to hear his definition (as in, at what constant/absolute SPL). I seem to recall a few different tests showing audible/noticable clipping levels to be difficult to coax out of a 9V op-amp based amplifier under 300ohm load, or I wouldn't be asking.

You read the related HydrogenAudio thread -- why are you asking for an opinion when you have some reasonably scientific tests right there? (LOL).

Hell, I was arguing with this guy on HydrogenAudio because I didn't want to believe it, but between those tests (which clearly showed clipping with loud/dynamic music) and this amp designer's input, sorry but it appears to be an undeniable fact. I actually find it hard to believe you're still in denial, given the result of those tests. Go back and read the thread again.

P.S. doesn't matter to me if it's "difficult to coax out" or not... this is merely a matter of semantics AFAIC. If it can be coaxed out at all, then clearly one is taking a chance of it happening. I don't know about you, but as a person who cares a *lot* about high fidelity I wouldn't use an amp that might clip merely because you play some particular music loudly. Maybe you aren't as anal about sound quality as I am, which is fine of course.

 

[Andrea]

Shellbrook Mini Head -- I bought one, great sound low cost ($95)

Shellbrook Maxi Moy -- newly revisited, promising! ($135)

Xenos 0HA-R -- very competent internals; promising, particularly with low impedance 'phones ($58)

 

[NotJeffBuckley]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fewtch You read the related HydrogenAudio thread -- why are you asking for an opinion when you have some reasonably scientific tests right there? (LOL). Hell, I was arguing with this guy on HydrogenAudio because I didn't want to believe it, but between those tests (which clearly showed clipping with loud/dynamic music) and this amp designer's input, sorry but it appears to be an undeniable fact. I actually find it hard to believe you're still in denial, given the result of those tests. Go back and read the thread again. P.S. doesn't matter to me if it's "difficult to coax out" or not... this is merely a matter of semantics AFAIC. If it can be coaxed out at all, then clearly one is taking a chance of it happening. I don't know about you, but as a person who cares a *lot* about high fidelity I wouldn't use an amp that might clip merely because you play some particular music loudly. Maybe you aren't as anal about sound quality as I am, which is fine of course.

It is not that I'm not anal (I'm just as much of a sound quality hound as you, and I rather resent you implying otherwise), nor that I am "in denial," but rather that when receiving conflicting sets of data I - and any other rational being, I would hope - want to get the facts straight rather than have two right answers where only one is possible.

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotJeffBuckley It is not that I'm not anal (I'm just as much of a sound quality hound as you, and I rather resent you implying otherwise), nor that I am "in denial," but rather that when receiving conflicting sets of data I - and any other rational being, I would hope - want to get the facts straight rather than have two right answers where only one is possible.

So did I... that's why I consulted with a couple people I have reason to trust implicitly on this matter, above and beyond the HA tests. If you want to get the facts straight, get them straight. I did, and I will not go near another single-9V (or less) amp with a pair of high impedance headphones.

P.S. I don't see the conflict. The tests are up on HA for anyone to see, and you can perform them yourself. Why don't you do so? You'll need to borrow some measuring equipment and arrange a similar test, checking for amp clipping. You might even be able to get the exact clip(s) that guy used on HA for his tests, if you ask for them. "Just do it." Let me know what you come up with.

Unless maybe it's not important enough to you, and you prefer to cling to your beliefs in the face of evidence to the contrary. Yes, I'm challenging you to perform the tests and resolve this "conflict" for yourself, to your own satisfaction.

P.S. you're coming awfully close to looking (to me) like a PA2V2 fanboy who wants to believe the amp can do no wrong. Hope you don't take that as an insult, it's just the way it looks from here.

 

[hciman77]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fewtch P.S. I don't see the conflict. The tests are up on HA for anyone to see, and you can perform them yourself.

HA ? - can you post a link to this tpoic - I would be interested in reading it ..

Thanks

 

[NotJeffBuckley]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fewtch So did I... that's why I consulted with a couple people I have reason to trust implicitly on this matter, above and beyond the HA tests. If you want to get the facts straight, get them straight. I did, and I will not go near another single-9V (or less) amp with a pair of high impedance headphones. P.S. I don't see the conflict. The tests are up on HA for anyone to see, and you can perform them yourself. Why don't you do so? You'll need to borrow some measuring equipment and arrange a similar test, checking for amp clipping. You might even be able to get the exact clip(s) that guy used on HA for his tests, if you ask for them. "Just do it." Let me know what you come up with. Unless maybe it's not important enough to you, and you prefer to cling to your beliefs in the face of evidence to the contrary. Yes, I'm challenging you to perform the tests and resolve this "conflict" for yourself, to your own satisfaction. P.S. you're coming awfully close to looking (to me) like a PA2V2 fanboy who wants to believe the amp can do no wrong. Hope you don't take that as an insult, it's just the way it looks from here.

If that's what you think, it's no wonder you think I'm dogmatically rejecting a counter-"belief." No, that's not it at all. I'm talking specifically about 9V amplifiers, not the PA2V2 which definitely has measurable clipping with high impedance headphones. I own multiple amps (ranging in voltage from 3V to 18V) for that reason. I refuse to attach my ego to anything I own - there's no point in letting a posession become a point of strife.

I'll see about getting my hands on the necessary equipment, and I'll be happy to tell you the results - I'm just trying to figure out under what conditions the amplifier will clip, as I'd love to avoid having to desolder and resolder a different pair of op-amps into a particular amplifier, drill a hole in the hammond enclosure, and modify it to run off a regulated wall-wart to go to a higher voltage

I listen at reasonable volumes (peaks never exceeding 85dB with the average volume characteristically lower) and if it doesn't clip at my listening levels I'll not be going to the trouble to modify it.

No "clinging to false belief in the face of evidence" here, fewtch, and certainly no PA2V2 fanboyism. Don't take my argument for it as a better value in one thread to be a universal declaration of its superiority in every thread

 

[K2Grey]

NJB: I believe the conclusion was that a 9V amp, assuming the average listening volume is 80db or so, would clip if the dynamic range was high enough that the volume hit 100+ db. Although I can't remember if those figures were given for the 18V vs 600 ohm comparison or the 9V vs 300 ohm comparison.

Anyway, the point is that the volume has to be pretty loud before it clips.

 

[hciman77]

Quote:

Originally Posted by K2Grey NJB: I believe the conclusion was that a 9V amp, assuming the average listening volume is 80db or so, would clip if the dynamic range was high enough that the volume hit 100+ db. Although I can't remember if those figures were given for the 18V vs 600 ohm comparison or the 9V vs 300 ohm comparison. Anyway, the point is that the volume has to be pretty loud before it clips.

What is 100db ?

http://www.abelard.org/hear/hear.htm#how-loud

One of my neighbour's brats plays his car stereo (with new subwoofer) so loud that it shakes our windows from 30ft away - nice to know he will be deaf by the time he hits 25

 

[marvin]

Well, the test illustrated on the HA forum is particularly brutal. -30dB average volume with 0dBFS peaks... I think that you can safely say that the vast majority of music doesn't even approach this level of dynamics.

Also, the HA calculations are somewhat misleading, he doesn't include max undistorted voltage from 1x9V and gives all his figures in volts instead of the more relevant dBs. Not that big of a deal though. In the example, switching over to a 2x9V got around 7 dB of headroom, which is close enough to the 6dB of calculated extra headroom that doubling the voltage should bring.

What it basically comes down to is if you're satisfied with 97dB peaks or need 103dB peaks. As most people on this board don't even approach this level of volume, it's a moot point.