[gerG]

Heehee, I vote this the goofiest tweak this year! Too often I see arguments that leverage an aspect of physics in the wrong direction and build a product on that flawed base. Am I missing something?

My issues:

1) The assertion that scattered light is a problem. Why? Don't manufacturers know how to align the polarizer on the receiving optics with the transmitter? If not, I just found a killer tweak.

2) Adding an angle to the edge to "improve" the rejection of stray light. All of the disks that I have incorporate a vertical polished edge. That basically lets the incident light OUT. How the hell does catching it and bouncing it around inside some more help? I have pondered the rays that are not normal to the edge, and it still seems like this process holds more light in than it releases.

3) Coloring the edge to improve the reflection/absorbtion/adsorption/mysticism/etc. The ink is on the wrong side of the surface to do much good.

4) What about the inside edge? That thing is usually a mess, and could probably use some help. ok, it is outside the scope of the product, but I was just curious.

It really would be an improvement if this trick actually balanced the CD. More and more lately I find that my new CDs shake the bejesus out of my transport. I can imagine the poor tracking mechanism trying to keep up.

Please clue me in if I am missing the purpose of this device.


gerG

 

[Mr.PD]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerG .................................................. ....................... It really would be an improvement if this trick actually balanced the CD. More and more lately I find that my new CDs shake the bejesus out of my transport. I can imagine the poor tracking mechanism trying to keep up. Please clue me in if I am missing the purpose of this device. gerG

Maybe you hit on the purpose, if it indexes on the center hole and trims the outer edge, maybe it is balancing the CD.

 

[gerG]

Mr.PD, that part I have no trouble believing. We need a high speed CD balancer!


gerG

 

[Wmcmanus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.PD Maybe you hit on the purpose, if it indexes on the center hole and trims the outer edge, maybe it is balancing the CD.

Yes, in my experience, this is precisely what it does. As I've said previously on this thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wmcmanus What I have observed is that discs spin much more naturally when they have been trimmed. The edges of manufactured discs are not perfectly smooth... so all the Audio Desk does is to remove little bits of the outer edge. On my Shanling T200, I can stand above the player and watch the discs spinning, and there in no wabble at all with a trimmed disc...

 

[Wmcmanus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ampgalore Not another one. Wasn't there a thread about placing a rainbow sticker on CDs that made "dramatic" improvements in CD playback, heard things never heard before... For $500 I would rather spend it on a new CD player or buy more CDs.

He...

Quote:

Originally Posted by grinch hahah sure seems like an interesting way to spend money. personally, for $550 i'd rather have more music. He he... nirvana's unplugged album sounds really impressive to me too, my copy hasn't been "trimmed" around the edges though.

He he he...

Quote:

Originally Posted by radrd Proving that audiophiles remain in the "some of the people some of the time" category.

He he he he...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welly Wu Like Radrd said before, audiophiles fall into the "sometimes some of the time" category. I should know. I did. However, this is really cutting it too close for me (pun intended).

He he he he he...


Quote:

Originally Posted by gerG Heehee, I vote this the goofiest tweak this year! Too often I see arguments that leverage an aspect of physics in the wrong direction and build a product on that flawed base. Am I missing something?gerG

Yes. You haven't tried it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wmcmanus As this thread develops, it will be interesting to see how the proportion of respones changes (i.e., those who would prefer to poke fun while remaining ignorant on the subject relative to those willing to try it and then report back based on experience rather than assumptions).

 

[Oliver :)]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerG Mr.PD, that part I have no trouble believing. We need a high speed CD balancer! gerG

Totally with you! I threw my Concord Jazz Sampler No.2 into my Denon 2900 last night, and it made the drive sound like... yeah, like a lawnmower. I could even feel the vibration standing next to it. No kidding!

The problem is two-sided.
1. The discs are not properly balanced. For whatever reason, it is beyond me.
2. The drives spin the discs too fast.

I have no idea whether I should start cutting my discs into better shapes, but I know for sure that I will call up Denon tomorrow and demo the sound of the drive to someone just asking to guess what it might be (so without telling), and if they cannot make it out but say something in the line of "sounds bad/annoying" I will tell the person that it's their *#!"&%$ €1100 player and that I want it replaced.

 

[Mr.PD]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wmcmanus Yes, in my experience, this is precisely what it does. As I've said previously on this thread:

So, if the outer edges of a disc are uneven, and there is the possibility that the hole is not perfectly centered then this machine will true all that up. Considering that the material the disc is made from is more than likely uniform in thickness, and if the printing on the label side does not effect balance, then the the Audio Desk balances the CD. I would think that balancing would have the greatest effect on sound quality. I am still unsure about the light escape thing though. I can see where this machine could make a difference, even though I feel it has more to do with balance than laser.

Why does the machine spin so fast for the cutting action? Do you think it could cut just as well at slower speeds?

 

[Geise]

High speeds are best for the cleanest, most accurate cutting. This is very evident in power tools, but is also seen in dental and medical instruments aswell

 

[Wmcmanus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.PD So, if the outer edges of a disc are uneven, and there is the possibility that the hole is not perfectly centered then this machine will true all that up. Considering that the material the disc is made from is more than likely uniform in thickness, and if the printing on the label side does not effect balance, then the the Audio Desk balances the CD. I would think that balancing would have the greatest effect on sound quality. I am still unsure about the light escape thing though. I can see where this machine could make a difference, even though I feel it has more to do with balance than laser. Why does the machine spin so fast for the cutting action? Do you think it could cut just as well at slower speeds?

Even as a "believer" in what this machine does for the sound of CD's based on my actual experience with it, I'm also skeptical about the about the light escaping explanation. I'm with you in that it seems to have more to do with balancing, or at least this much is physically observable. Until this thread appeared, I didn't even know about the light escape thing because I've never bothered to read about the Audio Desk. I just use it and it works, and I'm happy with that.

I think Geise covered the speed issue. I'm not sure what the minimum speed would be but you could probably get by with half speed (4500 rpm) and still get a clean cut. The disc is placed on a thick pad and clamped down tightly with a locking bolt that it also padded, so it shouldn't hurt to use a lower speed, so long as it's not so slow and the blade 'grabs' the disc and jams the motor (e.g., at less than 1000 rpm).

It works much like a grinder except that instead of holding the object in your hands and touching it against the grinding wheel as the wheel spins, the disk is spinning and you move the arm that the blade is attached to such that the blade makes contact with the disc. The angle that the blade is positioned at is 'fixed' so it becomes a no brainer to use. As Brandon mentioned, it is best to make the initial cut very gently and at slightly less than full speed to avoid gouging the disc, then you do the rest of the cut at full speed. As with cooking popcorn, you stop when not much else is happening. The actual cutting takes just 2-3 seconds. Clamping, unclamping and cleaning away the trimmings is what takes time. If you're doing a production run, you can connect a vaccuum cleaner up to it to suck out the trimmings.

 

[sclemmons]

It really works. I have had one of these Audio Desk lathes for a couple of years. I am on my second blade.

It works well at my house. You may not be able to hear the difference on your system; it depends on the resolution you have already. If you are importing CD's to your iPod, it probably doesn't matter. My wife can hear the difference, and likes it well enough that we cut all the CD's we listen to regularly. She can usually hear the difference with tweaks if there is any to be heard, but she doesn't usually care about it. She is as skeptical about audio snake oil as anybody on this forum. If she likes it, that is a fairly strong statement in favor, IMHO.

I got mine from a dealer who cut a couple of duplicate CD's for me to try. We compared and liked the cut CD's better. Find a dealer who will do it for you and buy it from him if you like the result.

 

[Edwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandon_Ottawa Edwood...here are some quick pics that I took of the shavings and the disc's bevel after cutting and marking. The shavings look like dental floss. My best results are obtained by cutting at about 7500-8000 rpm on the audio desk. I like to make a final "clean-up" cut at the machine's max speed (9000 rpm). Marking the beveled edge is a piece of cake...you just hold the marker in a stationary position against the beveled edge while the disc spins at 50 or so RPM. The end result is very clean. A word of caution: The Audio Desk improves the sound of SACD's, BUT...I wouldn't recommend using the lathe on these discs. SACD's seem to have a very thin laminate that tends to develop stress cracks from the cutting process/handling during application of optical enhancers and cleaners. Some of my cut SACD's have stress cracks around the outer edge (approx 0.1 - 0.5 mm in length). I haven't had any problems playing any of these discs. I still continue to bevel my SACD's. The sonic improvement that I hear is more important than a cosmetically perfect disc. I have never had any problem with any CD's that I have cut. They are 100% problem free. http://members.rogers.com/brandonottawa/floss.jpg The CD is a little dusty and statically charged after throwing the shaving on it. The marking was done while the disc was clean. A good reason to have a Bedini! http://members.rogers.com/brandonottawa/markeddisc.jpg

Woah. That's a lot of material it cuts away.

Haha, now the cd's have a sharp edge, so you can use them as a deadly weapon.

I think I would rather spend the money on a Wet Process CD resurfacing/repair machine, as I have more problems with older scratched discs.

Thanks for the pics, Brandon. Looks very precise.

-Ed

 

[DarkAngel]

Cable Co is the main supplier in USA I think, my salesman there said Music Direct gets thier units from him. If you seem interested Cable Co. will let you send CD in to have it trimmed and return to you for comparison to original (make sure you have two copies)

They do not lend these out from tweak library (for obvious reasons, he he) and have special package deal if you buy CD lathe with Furutech de-mag unit.

I have known about this tweak for many years, but have not used it because it violates my "golden rule" of tweaking:

Never apply a tweak which cannot be later removed

I am even a little hesitant to apply the various CD polishes (Auric, Walker etc) since who know what may happen 10 years from now to CD? I still remember long ago some people ruined thier CDs using Armour-all as a CD polish and later CDs surface became clouded and opaque.

 

[Wmcmanus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sclemmons It really works. I have had one of these Audio Desk lathes for a couple of years. I am on my second blade.

Ok, so by my count, we now have 3 people who have tried it (4 counting sclemmons's wife) who have tried the Audio Desk Systeme and say - with no equivocation - that it works. We also have a bunch of people who have never tried it and have not yet taken up my offer to try the discs that I've trimmed, but choose to poke fun instead. So who is laughing with PT Barnum now?

 

[Geise]

About the balance thing, I think the designers were aiming to improve laser purity with this machine, but may not have given a thought to how it may improve balance aswell

At least that's what I'd like to believe...that'd be 2 tweaks in one package

Either way, I'd say this is a tweak for those who already have a ultra top notch system and no other upgrade or tweak is improving anything (probably why it's priced so high; it's for people who can afford Orpheus's and the like

)

 

[Wmcmanus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geise Either way, I'd say this is a tweak for those who already have a ultra top notch system and no other upgrade or tweak is improving anything (probably why it's priced so high; it's for people who can afford Orpheus's and the like )

Uhhhhhh, you got me there!

Because of the price, yes, you're right. But in terms of what it does for the sound, I would not describe it as a tweek of last resort. To my ears, it works better than any other CD-related tweek that I've tried.

The price was something that I didn't give much consideration to because at the time I bought my demo unit for $400, I had another buyer lined up for it already in case I didn't like it. I could have flipped it and not lost a dime, and this is what I fully expected to happen. Then once I tried it, I decided to keep it since the Audio Desk does at least as much as cable upgrades that cost a lot more.