[kryspin34]

Hello,
I have an issue with pairing Kiwi Orchestra Lite (cable upgraded to Kinera Leyding) and 4.4mm output on FiiO K7. If I do that, I get no channel separation - sounds that are supposed to be played in the left IEM are played in both and vice versa. However, if I change the plug on Leyding to 3.5mm, and connect it to 6.35mm output on K7 via the adapter that came with it, the issue is gone, and I'm just wondering if this 4.4mm setup isn't compatible, or if the cable/K7 is defective. Sadly I don't have any other device with 4.4mm plug to test it with.

Thanks for reading.

 

[castleofargh]

Most likely, the pin arrangement of that adapter isn't right for the K7. I don't know that product, do you know of people using it successfully with Fiio?

I guess there's also a possibility for that particular output on the K7 to be wired wrongly, but I still believe the odds are massively stacked against the cable's adapter.

 

[Roseval]

If you have a multi meter, simply measure it. The pins at headphone side should connect to the Pentaconn as L+L- R+R- https://forum.hifiguides.com/t/diy-balanced-cable-pentaconn-to-3-5m-ts-wiring/24573

Plug fully inserted?

 

[castleofargh]

Arf, I didn't think to ask, but is the default cable(not the adapter but the cable going into the IEM) even a balanced one?

 

[kryspin34]

castleofargh, I cannot find any information whether the cable is balanced, although descriptions says that two of three interchangeable plugs are balanced: 2.5mm and 4.4mm. 3.5mm plug is supposed to be single-ended. There's no issue with connecting 3.5mm to 5.3mm adapter, however the issue ocurrs if I change the plug to 4.4mm and plug it directly to the K7. There's no adapter in this setup, unless adapter is another term for these interchangeable plugs. I don't know anyone using K7 with Kinera Leyding - I bought it because it had 4.4mm plug, it had good reviews and it was looking nice.

Roseval, I cannot push it any further.
I have a multimeter, but I've never used it, so you'd have to guide me what I should set the dial to, what should the feelers touch and what should be the result.

 

[Roseval]

There will be a setting "Ohm"
This measures the resistance.
Put the two test probes together and the reading will be 0 as there is a excellent connection.

What I think the cable is doing:
-at the headphone there is a 2 pin connection for each side. So 4 wires (you can't use a balanced amp without having 2x2 wires)
-at the other end there is a (female?) 4 pin connector.
All adapters have this 4 pin (male?) connector.
Inside the adapters the 4 pins are connected to the tip and the rings.
The 2.5 and 4.4 there must be a one to one relation between each pin and a tip or a ring as we need a 2x2 connection with the headphone.
In case of the 3.5, 2 pins will be connected to the sleeve as this is the common ground.

https://www.linquip.com/blog/multimeter-parts-all-you-need-to-know-about-all-the-components/

 

[castleofargh]

castleofargh, I cannot find any information whether the cable is balanced, although descriptions says that two of three interchangeable plugs are balanced: 2.5mm and 4.4mm. 3.5mm plug is supposed to be single-ended. There's no issue with connecting 3.5mm to 5.3mm adapter, however the issue ocurrs if I change the plug to 4.4mm and plug it directly to the K7. There's no adapter in this setup, unless adapter is another term for these interchangeable plugs. I don't know anyone using K7 with Kinera Leyding - I bought it because it had 4.4mm plug, it had good reviews and it was looking nice.

Roseval, I cannot push it any further.
I have a multimeter, but I've never used it, so you'd have to guide me what I should set the dial to, what should the feelers touch and what should be the result.

Yes, by adapters I meant the different plugs you can use on top of your cable.
Let's look at this, that I stole from moon audio

If your cable(not the extra plugs you can put on it) is the TRS type, then game over, that cable cannot and shouldn't be used with a balanced output. Any balanced cable can with an adapter become a single ended cable. But the other way around is impossible, as even if you get 4 pins on the plug, the cable before it only has 3 connections available.

If the IEM cable's ends with a TRRS, then we're back to wondering where the error in wiring occurs, and the multimeter approach proposed by Roseval looks like the best option to try and figure it out.

 

[HipHopScribe]

This might sound obvious, but also double check that the adapter is fully insterted. The 4.4mm port on my FiiO BTR7 takes a little more oomph than the 3.5mm.

 

[kryspin34]

I'm 100% positive I cannot push the 4.4mm plug any further. I tried to check what would happen if the 4.4mm wouldn't be fully inserted, and the result was actually getting left/right separation, but with the right IEM being louder and the left one quieter and distorted.

I need to buy a battery for my multimeter, so I'll try to test that in the upcoming days. If I understood it correctly, I only need the 4.4mm plug to do this test, right? I touch one of the pins on the male connector with one probe, and for example the tip of the 4.4mm jack - result of that should be as if I touched two probes together?

About the cable, each IEM is connected via 0.78mm 2pin and has two braided cables coming out of it. Then the cables from both IEMs joing each other and total of four cables are braided, and all of them are connected to the female part of the connector, which allows me to plug 3 different interchangeable male plugs. So I'd assume the cable has 4 available connections since it has 4 different cables, each connecting to one of the four pins on the female part of the adapter.

Also inserted two pictures into this post. Information comes from Kinera site, so maybe it'll be helpful.

 

[HeadWombat]

Some 4.4mm cables that I've used had this problem, pulling the cable out of the 4.4mm socket just a hair seems to fix the channel separation. I have some 4.4mm cables that aren't like this with the same sources. I've experienced it using the iFi Neo and Go Blu and Fiio BTR7.

 

[kryspin34]

I tested this, and I there's some I guess mechanism at the end of 4.4mm female connector on the K7 that latches on the tip of the 4.4mm jack, so it won't fall out easily. If I push 4.4mm jack inside it to the point of getting to resistance of this mechanism, then I get separation between left and right channel, but like I said before, the right IEM is loud and the left one is quiet and distorted. As soon as I push it even a little bit further, the separation is gone.

 

[HeadWombat]

I tested this, and I there's some I guess mechanism at the end of 4.4mm female connector on the K7 that latches on the tip of the 4.4mm jack, so it won't fall out easily. If I push 4.4mm jack inside it to the point of getting to resistance of this mechanism, then I get separation between left and right channel, but like I said before, the right IEM is loud and the left one is quiet and distorted. As soon as I push it even a little bit further, the separation is gone.

Oops, missed your latest post. Good luck, without another source or cable it's hard to say which one is defective - obviously. I really don't think the pin out is the problem here, 4.4mm has gotten a lot more mainstream and you purchased gear by reputable manufacturers.

I don't know what the return policy on the cable is like but unless you need the additional power I'd consider going back to a 3.5mm. I went 4.4mm on most of my past gear and I've either replaced some of those cables or purchased adapters. I'd still want my K7 fixed, if under warranty, if that's the problem.

 

[kryspin34]

Don't get me wrong, when I said "I tested this" I referred to what I did after your suggestion not prior to it, but it wasn't possible to do so, because there's no wiggle room for the jack if it's locked by the mechanism.

I wasn't "accusing" you of suggesting something I already did because that wasn't the case. I'm sorry if I worded it incorrectly. I appreciate any advice I get.

I might order a cheaper cable for testing. I think my choice would be Tripowin Amber - this is the cheapest one I could find with 0.78mm IEM connection and interchangeable plugs. If I'd get the same issue on another cable, I guess I'd have to send the K7 for possible repair/replacement.

 

[HeadWombat]

I'm 100% positive I cannot push the 4.4mm plug any further. I tried to check what would happen if the 4.4mm wouldn't be fully inserted, and the result was actually getting left/right separation, but with the right IEM being louder and the left one quieter and distorted.

I was referring to this post, but I didn't take your comment aggressively

 

[kryspin34]

Okay, received a different cable today: FiiO LS-4.4A.
No problems with this one, so it turns out that there's an issue with Kinera Leyding or at least with their 4.4mm plug.