Next step for me?
post-142179
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[size=xx-small] Quote:

Originally posted by andrzejpw
<sigh> And everyone was raving about the denon a few short months ago.


Quote:

Originally posted by wasifazim
A new CDP, since I can't imagine that your Denon, with its high jitter levels and only an RCA digital out, would be a great transport.

- Wasif.


[/size]

I've had a Denon DCM-370 for some time now (it's in my office rig), and it has been very reliable, and actually sounds better than any player in its price range that I've heard (which is very low -- street price ~$200 to $250). In my experience, it's a smooth sounding player, and easily the least fatiguing player to listen to that I've heard in its price range. Compared to better players, it does give up detail, and it isn't particularly sweet on the high end. It also does not give the sense of airiness that some of the better players and DACs I'm using are better at serving up.

As a transport, the Denon DCM-370 actually does quite well considering its price -- I've tried running its coaxial digital out into the Bel Canto DAC 2 and the MSB GoldLINK III DACs, and, as expected, these DACs made the DCM-370 sound like a completely different and much improved beast (but, then again, you're not really listening to the DCM-370 much anymore with these DACs in place).

As far as how much jitter the DCM-370 is afflicted by.....I have no idea. I've not seen this specific model measured anywhere, so I can't really say for sure how high or low it is. I'm not assuming it's top notch in this regard, but, again, I have no firm idea on how it would measure.

Also, regarding coaxial digital out using RCA jacks/plugs: though not necessarily the best configuration, it is what even some of the better CD players are equipped with.


[size=xx-small] Quote:

Originally posted by wasifazim


You haven't gotten it all wrong, Duncan. Digital RCA output is the way to go over optical output. However, the problem with RCA is that most single-ended digital cables strive for 75 ohm impedance throughout the cable, and yet no RCA plug (or RCA output jack) is capable of that; they're all usually closer to 50 ohms in impedance. This impedance mismatch introduces additional jitter. What I mean was that a "proper" transport should at least have a BNC output and (ideally) an AES/EBU output.

Jitter isn't controlled "on" DAC. Your Marantz has a crystal oscillator that takes care of timing (bottom right hand corner of the PCB, wrapped in a black silicone ring), and the fact that it's not the nicest oscillator around is one of the factors leading to the high jitter rates (as I recall, your model's jitter is somewhere in the 600+ ps range; by comparison, a Musical Fidelity A3CD is sub-200 ps and the best transports bring it down to single digits.

- Wasif.


[/size]

As far as a transport having to have BNC or AES/EBU to be "proper": that would be up for debate. The Sony SCD-1 -- considered by many to be an awesome transport -- is, I believe, only equipped with S/PDIF output on RCA (as are many others).

I have yet to see a single-digit psec jitter rating from any transports (I'm not saying that it doesn't exist, just that I haven't yet seen such a measurement yet).

Some measurements I have found (and how these were measured weren't always spelled out very clearly):

dCS Elgar: 132 psec to 150 psec
Merdian 508.24: 144.2 psec
Sony SCD-C333ES: 167 psec
Marantz CD6000 KI Signature: 260 psec
Arcam Diva CD72: 150 psec
Accuphase DP-100: 168.5 psec
Creek CD-53: 155 psec
Musical Fidelity Nu-Vista 3D: 156.3 psec
Sony SCD-1: 146.8 psec

I'm not very learned when it comes to jitter and the like, so I'm not sure how meaningful these measurements are.
 
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post-142184
Post #17 of 28

gaineso

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Quote:

Originally posted by Flasken
andrze...

Lighten up man!! We are the same age and I'm looking at a years of saving before i get to buy my first amp! I'd kill to have what you have - don't listen to the people here.. They have money to spare, and I'm sure you dont!!

Your current setup is like my current DREAM for christs sake. Enjoy it or I'd have to kill you.

Feel any better now??


Damn, Flasken's sobered up and making DAMNED GOOD SENSE!!!!!

Quit being so obssesed with equpiment and LISTEN TO THE DAMN MUSIC!!! That's what it's all supposed to be about anyway. You can get better equipment when you get out of college. As soon as you contribute to my Social Security, that is
 
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post-142229
Post #18 of 28

Flasken

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Quote:

Originally posted by gaineso

Damn, Flasken's sobered up


Hmm...

I like to say that I have a damned good humor, so why is it that e-ve-ry-bo-dy here at head-fi, except me, find that funny??? Gah. GAH!!!


andrze..

There, there,

You are not being rude at all, but I just thought you knew better, you know?? OTOH I'm just as bad as you...

The end of my DT250 review :
Quote:

Originally posted by Flasken

After I buy some more music I bet I'll start saving for an amp... Which one would you recommend for these??


Back then I actually weren't as happy about my cans as I am now. Why? Because I couldn't stop thinking "What next??" - Just like you're doing now.

- Do this:
LEARN to love what you've got, and I PROMISE you that you will like what you've got more than the thought of getting something better.


This fantasy of having something else even though you love what you have, is just plain male biology.
"Whenever the thought of another woman is torturing you, squeeze the one you have tighter."

- did I just make that up? Makes sense to me...
 
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post-142387
Post #19 of 28

kelly

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When I see a hot chick with some ugly guy and find myself envying, I just think to myself... man, that poor guy probably gets nagged to death by that bitch.

Anyway, the problem I have with upgraditis is knowing the qualities I want in components too well. Almost as soon as I hear a new one, I take inventory of what doesn't measure up and plan my next move. It's one part obsessive, one part strategic -- but it's not just chasing some arbitrary "better."
 
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post-142427
Post #20 of 28

wasifazim

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Quote:

Originally posted by jude



As far as a transport having to have BNC or AES/EBU to be "proper": that would be up for debate. The Sony SCD-1 -- considered by many to be an awesome transport -- is, I believe, only equipped with S/PDIF output on RCA (as are many others).

I have yet to see a single-digit psec jitter rating from any transports (I'm not saying that it doesn't exist, just that I haven't yet seen such a measurement yet).

Some measurements I have found (and how these were measured weren't always spelled out very clearly):

dCS Elgar: 132 psec to 150 psec
Merdian 508.24: 144.2 psec
Sony SCD-C333ES: 167 psec
Marantz CD6000 KI Signature: 260 psec
Arcam Diva CD72: 150 psec
Accuphase DP-100: 168.5 psec
Creek CD-53: 155 psec
Musical Fidelity Nu-Vista 3D: 156.3 psec
Sony SCD-1: 146.8 psec

I'm not very learned when it comes to jitter and the like, so I'm not sure how meaningful these measurements are.



The impedance mismatch issue with RCA digital outs has been well documented (on AA for example), hence my contention that a good CD transport should have AES/EBU or BNC outputs. The SCD-1 is supposedly an excellent player (haven't heard it myself, but I won't doubt Sony's technical prowess), but I'd speculate that the reason it only comes with an RCA digital output is that it's a player first and foremost, with the digital output added only for convenience. By contrast, most bespoke transports (Levinson/Proceed, Theta, CEC, Cal Labs etc.) come equipped with AES/EBU and/or BNC outputs.

- Wasif.
 
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post-142434
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Duncan

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in that case... The Cambridge Audio D500SE seems the way to go, its a pretty decent player with a low (<180ps) jitter rate, and has a BNC output that could (sometime in the future - when the sound got too familiar) go to the S700 DAC which has the same connector - that'd be quite a sweet combo... yeah?
 
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post-142459
Post #22 of 28

Vertigo-1

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Regarding the SCD-1's balanced outs...from what I gather off Audio Asylum, the balanced outs are indeed stuck on as an afterthought, and is toted as one reason to get the SCD-1 over the SCD-777ES, which has no balanced outs. It's supposedly not a true balanced out, in that it does some sort of internal conversion of the normal signal going to the RCA outs to achieve the balanced output. Some people claim that the unbalanced output actually sound better than the balanced output as a result of this...
 
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post-142492
Post #23 of 28

andrzejpw

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I think I just had an epiphany of sorts. Last night, I went to bed around 1230. There was nothing on the radio, so I was sort of like "screw this," and I put in Dave Brubeck's Time Out. I turned the lights out, and I lied(damn, is that the one?) in my bed. MAGIC.
I just listened to my headphones. I felt like I could touch the notes that came off the piano. The percussion was amazing. I heard things that I never heard before. I was there.

I'm VERY happy with my system. Only problem is, this little is a loaner. So, I'm going to send it back, and I'll choose what I want to replace it with.

Wow. I'm really happy!
 
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post-142503
Post #24 of 28

kelly

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Quote:

Originally posted by Vertigo-1
Regarding the SCD-1's balanced outs...from what I gather off Audio Asylum, the balanced outs are indeed stuck on as an afterthought, and is toted as one reason to get the SCD-1 over the SCD-777ES, which has no balanced outs. It's supposedly not a true balanced out, in that it does some sort of internal conversion of the normal signal going to the RCA outs to achieve the balanced output. Some people claim that the unbalanced output actually sound better than the balanced output as a result of this...


Vertigo
In this thread when the BNC was mentioned, people were talking about the SCD-1's lack of having a DIGITAL BNC out. Sony owns the optical format so they push that as much as they can and really only include the coax digital out at all because it became industry standard.

You are right about the player's balanced (analog) outs, though. Dan Wright says they're internally converted from single ended to balanced. He is working on a fully blanaced output for it with Jena Labs to accompany the rest of his "Absolute Truth" mods, but says this will make it even more expensive. (It already costs more to have the SCD-1 or SCD777ES modded than the XA777ES.)

I know with the XA, its lacking balanced outs will end up being one of my regrets. I do believe balanced makes a noticable difference but I don't think in this case that it's worth it for me considering the expense.
 
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post-142549
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daycart1

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Quote:

Originally posted by TimSchirmer
Lol...next step = buy records and ignore everyone here. When your 370 starts to skip (like mine) then think about upgrading.


Edit: But if you must upgrade...go analog


==

I just made a major analog upgrade that I can't even afford! This is the way to go (analog, I mean; not financial irresponsibility)
 
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post-142716
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Flasken

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Quote:

Originally posted by andrzejpw
I think I just had an epiphany of sorts. Last night, I went to bed around 1230. There was nothing on the radio, so I was sort of like "screw this," and I put in Dave Brubeck's Time Out. I turned the lights out, and I lied(damn, is that the one?) in my bed. MAGIC.
I just listened to my headphones. I felt like I could touch the notes that came off the piano. The percussion was amazing. I heard things that I never heard before. I was there.

I'm VERY happy with my system. Only problem is, this little is a loaner. So, I'm going to send it back, and I'll choose what I want to replace it with.

Wow. I'm really happy!


YES!! Congrats man, it only gets better from here. If you preserve a positive state of mind, you'll end up loving your system no matter what everyone else says. Just look at A&M and his Senns or Joe Bloggs and his EQ'ing.
 
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post-142870
Post #27 of 28

Duncan

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Quote:

Originally posted by Flasken


YES!! Congrats man, it only gets better from here. If you preserve a positive state of mind, you'll end up loving your system no matter what everyone else says. Just look at A&M and his Senns or Joe Bloggs and his EQ'ing.


..and me with my Sonys
 
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post-142873
Post #28 of 28

Kubernetes

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Go to audiogon.com and pick up a used transport. You can find a hell of a good deal for around $400-500. Cal Delta, PS Audio Lambda, Theta Delta, even a Meridian. These are all transports that retail anywhere from $800-$2000+! If you don't mind buying used gear, you can get some amazing deals. (personally, I love buying used stuff; the great thing about audiophiles is that they/we are always upgrading and selling off great and well maintained gear!)
 
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