[garyd9]

A birdie told me that this was "the place" for the best of headphone advice... After several days of reading this forum, I'm more confused than ever...

I'm currently using a 5G iPod (which really does seem to sound better than my previous 4G and 3G.) With it, I'm using a pair of Shure E3's with slightly modified triple flange pieces. (The modification was to cut of the smallest flange, reducing it to a double flange.)

However, I suspect I'm starting to grow out of the E3's, and am looking for something a bit better...

While I realize that most folks here aren't fond of the iPod, it's what I'm using. As well, an amp isn't an option, as the device has to be extremely portable. Any headphones I use also have to be extremely portable, and preferably very low profile. (When I'm wearing my E3's and have my jacket on, no one can tell that I can't hear them..) (As well, IEM's tend to block most outside noise..)

My music preferences vary greatly depending on what I'm doing and where I am. From classical or Enya (while working) to rock while on the subway (soft/classic and hard/metal) to Pink Floyd (which defies any generic genre.) Extreme bass is NOT in my list. On the other hand, I've found that proper bass is important to even classical music.

Currently, I have all my mp3's mp3gain'd down to 85db, allowing me to use the ipod psuedo-equalizer setting of "rock" to try and compensate for the ipod's lack of bass (from the headset jack) and the E3's lack of treble. This is currently acceptable, but perhaps only because I'm so used to hearing it (I've had the E3's for about 2+ years.)

With all that said, I'm considering: Westone UM2, Ety ER4P, Shure E4, UE5Pro, or possibly waiting for the Shure E500...

The least likely of this bunch is probably the E500's. They are still, in my mind, a paper product. I realize that people here have seen and heard them, but until they are shipping retail, it's really not known what the shipping product will sound like, the actual retail price, or the date when they may actually ship out.

I took the Shure E5's from my list as, from what I've read, the UM2's and E5's are directly comparable in sound, but the UM2's are (for most) more comfortable and less expensive.

Any suggestions for someone seeking better sound?

Thanks
Gary

 

[vulc4n]

Quote:

Originally Posted by garyd9 A birdie told me that this was "the place" for the best of headphone advice... After several days of reading this forum, I'm more confused than ever... I'm currently using a 5G iPod (which really does seem to sound better than my previous 4G and 3G.) With it, I'm using a pair of Shure E3's with slightly modified triple flange pieces. (The modification was to cut of the smallest flange, reducing it to a double flange.) However, I suspect I'm starting to grow out of the E3's, and am looking for something a bit better... While I realize that most folks here aren't fond of the iPod, it's what I'm using. As well, an amp isn't an option, as the device has to be extremely portable. Any headphones I use also have to be extremely portable, and preferably very low profile. (When I'm wearing my E3's and have my jacket on, no one can tell that I can't hear them..) (As well, IEM's tend to block most outside noise..) My music preferences vary greatly depending on what I'm doing and where I am. From classical or Enya (while working) to rock while on the subway (soft/classic and hard/metal) to Pink Floyd (which defies any generic genre.) Extreme bass is NOT in my list. On the other hand, I've found that proper bass is important to even classical music. Currently, I have all my mp3's mp3gain'd down to 85db, allowing me to use the ipod psuedo-equalizer setting of "rock" to try and compensate for the ipod's lack of bass (from the headset jack) and the E3's lack of treble. This is currently acceptable, but perhaps only because I'm so used to hearing it (I've had the E3's for about 2+ years.) With all that said, I'm considering: Westone UM2, Ety ER4P, Shure E4, UE5Pro, or possibly waiting for the Shure E500... The least likely of this bunch is probably the E500's. They are still, in my mind, a paper product. I realize that people here have seen and heard them, but until they are shipping retail, it's really not known what the shipping product will sound like, the actual retail price, or the date when they may actually ship out. I took the Shure E5's from my list as, from what I've read, the UM2's and E5's are directly comparable in sound, but the UM2's are (for most) more comfortable and less expensive. Any suggestions for someone seeking better sound? Thanks Gary

I'm not speaking from experience in any way, but I think the UM2s are your best bet. From what I've heard they are some of the most comfortable IEMs available and they sound great. If I have 300.00 for IEMs they would definatly be my number one choice.

 

[garyd9]

I should add, for completeness, that everything on my iPod is encoded at VBR 192+. (LAME preset standard or extreme... depending on if I hear artifacts with the standard setting or not.)

 

[jjcha]

Hey man,

Welcome to head-fi. I think you've come to the right place, but there is a lot of information out there.

I just got my 5G the other day, and I agree, the sound quality has defnitely improved from the Photo and 3G.

You're looking at a ton of great IEM, and whatever your decision is, will be based upon what's "right for you" as opposed to what's "the best".

I will say the E4c sounds pretty different from the E3's, so I wouldn't let that influence the decision too much. Also, I'd say don't worry too much about your source files being compressed or not going amped.

What do you like about your current rig? What don't you like? Is a nice warm/thick sound important to you? Would you rather be biased on the treble side or bass side? We need a bit more of a dialogue before we really should get into recommendations.

Best,

-Jason

 

[grawk]

I really like the UM2s with ety tri flange tips out of an ipod...

 

[grawk]

I really like the UM2s with ety tri flange tips out of an ipod...

 

[pspivak]

If you are a detail lover and not a basshead try the ER-6i's for a start. I liked them a lot with my shuffle. Now I have the ER-4p's with the 5g and find them satisfactory as a portable system. And yes you do have to:
a. break them in (this is my opinion)
b. get used to the sound
c. change the filters every once in awhile
d. get used to the tri-flanges and how they feel. Give it some time, it is
so worth it
e. AND MOST IMPORTANT learn how to get a proper seal.

 

[garyd9]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjcha You're looking at a ton of great IEM, and whatever your decision is, will be based upon what's "right for you" as opposed to what's "the best". What do you like about your current rig? What don't you like? Is a nice warm/thick sound important to you? Would you rather be biased on the treble side or bass side? We need a bit more of a dialogue before we really should get into recommendations.

Current IEM (E3c) likes/dislikes: This is extremely hard to describe, but it seems that the music lacks... depth. It also seems to lack some seperation.. I believe the proper term is that it lacks a wide sound-stage.

I've done everything I can to push both the bass and treble, but it still seems that I'm getting the mid's in full, but the highs and lows are somehow limited. I believe that the lack of lows is due to the iPod itself, while the lack of highs might be a limitation of the E3's. With all my music gain'd down to 85, I'm able to use the ipod's "rock" equalizer setting which seems to help with the lows and highs, but it's not quite right.

As for my bias on bass/treble... Either the music is complete, or it's not.

I can easily live without "feeling" the bass, but I definatly want to hear it. (The Eagles did a 4 disc box set for Y2k, and the last disc is live stuff. Listen to "Funky New Year" with a pair of E3's on a non-equalized ipod.. and then listen to the same track with real speakers - you'll discover bass on the track that is nearly inaudible with the non-equalized ipod and E3's. This isn't so bad on a 5G ipod with bass booster or rock equalizer settings.)

At the same time, when I'm listening to classical or soprano singing, I think most people will agree that it's just "missing something" when the highs are chopped off. Several years ago, when I first started encoding MP3's, some encoders would cut off everything over 14khz. The result just sounded either "dead" or (in the case of the highs and mids interacting) full of artifacts...

So, to summarize, I want everything.

Is that too much to ask?

 

[xluben]

IEM's generally don't produce frequencies above 16khz.

 

[Jasper994]

Hmmm...

Well, the E4 will improve upon your bass, treble, and seperation. I haven't spent a lot of time with the E3, but I suspect soundstage is pretty similar, with the E4 possibly gaining a bit from the ported driver.

The Super.Fi 5 Pro will probably give you the widest soundstage, and will give you better bass and treble than the E3. It may not have much better seperation. Perhaps someone who owns both can chime in to that regard.

The E5 and UM2 are not the same animal. The UM2 seems to scoop out the mids a bit leaving the sound a little on the dead side (not vastly so) IMO. The E5 on the other hand has recesses the highest highs a bit. Are they equally enjoyable? I suppose it depends upon what you listen to and the tips you are using. My inclination is to give the E5 the nod, but I haven't really spent enough time with the UM2 to be fair. My main point here is that they are not the same, although I do think either one will give you most of what you're looking for.

While I think the Etymotic ER6i and ER4p are okay, I can't wholeheartedly recommend either one to you. You seem to be most concerned with fullness of sound, and both of them will have less life than your E3s.

I am one of the people that got to hear the E500, and have since spoken with Sugarfried (who is in charge of the E500's development) on several occasions. They are spectacular, and will give you (IMO) everything you're looking for. As to your concerns regarding what will actually come out in May: I spoke with Sugarfried this past Thursday, and he stated that the sound and design were locked in. The only question then, is whether or not they'll be out on time. I ask you: Does it really matter? Even if May turns to June, why spend $200-300 now, and then end up buying a whole new product in a couple months. Remember, the E500 won't be the only new game in town either. Ultimate Ears will be releasing the Triple X in June. The E500 smokes everything in the universal fit market right now and in my opinion does a number of things better than the UE-10. The Triple X, from what Mike (from UE) has said, should perform in the range of the UE-10 as well. If it does, it will also walk all over anything currently available in the universal fit market. My advice: Wait! It'll be worth it.

 

[garyd9]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jasper994 My advice: Wait! It'll be worth it.

So, to paraphrase, any of them (short of the ety's) would be closer to what I want, with the e500's being closest to ideal?

I'm not sure about the E4's due to another review you did (link in your sig) stating that "I wasn’t nearly as sold on the E4 until I switched to the foam tip." I tend to prefer the triple flange (or modified to dual-flange) tips. I wear these things for 8 to 14 hours a day, 5-7 days a week. In a given day, they are pulled out of my ears and re-inserted dozens of times. When I once tried to use the foams, I realized that a given pair wouldn't last me more than a couple days before I had to replace them. Given the current cost of foam tips, that translates to over $300 a year in tips... On the other hand, the flanges tend to last me about 8 months before I have to replace them. (the silicon starts to wear out and when I pull the IEMs out of my ears, the flanges will stay in my ears... thank god I have a pair of needle-nose pliers both at home and at work. )

When you say that the um2's tend to "scoop out the mids", do you mean that they subtract from them (scoop them out leaving a void) or add to them (scoop them out and push them up)? If they subtract from them, would you say that the effect would be similar to a 'cup' shaped equalizer (ie: the same as what I generally force the iPod to do)?

As for May turning to June - it matters quite a bit. I want them now. Now, I say! NOW! NOW! MINE! (Sorry. I have a two-year old daughter. She's teaching me bad habits... yeah.. thats it. it's her fault.)

 

[egokun]

The UM2s are currently my favorite. I also have the E3c and the E4c, but the E3c have long since been retired in their box and the E4c are mainly used when I go jogging and I need more in-ear stability (when inserted with Ety tri-flange, the E4c are virtually glued to your ear canal unless you really want to take them out

). As far as fullness of sound goes, E4c and UM2s are not really comparable, and especially so with an iPod. The UM2s can give you full, spacey, involving sound without any EQ and even without a portable amp, something the E4c can't quite do... the difference is obvious when unamped, and even more so when amped. I would never say I need powerful bass before trying the UM2s after months of continuous E4c use, but it turned out that I really like my bass to be a presence and not a hint. The downside to the UM2s is that they give their best with the foamies, both in sound and comfort, and that they tend to not stay flush with your ear when used with silicone tips, giving you a rather odd look

If you want to buy now, I really suggest the UM2. If you can wait, the E500 will probably be worth the wait, and they'll also offer you the PTH unit that will spare you the need to take the IEMs in and out of your ears repeatedly (note that the unit will be available separately, so there's really no need to also buy the IEMs). And let's not forget the upcoming new UE universal IEMs...

 

[jjcha]

Well, I wouldn't worry too much about the E4c needing foamies. Soundwise, this is all personal preference, and I would suspect there are plenty of people who are happy with the E4c with triflanges (I prefer the soft-flex).

It certainly is true that the E4c won't give you as much fullness to the sound as the E5c's, super.fi 5 Pro, and, I imagine, the UM2. The question though is how much fullness do you really want? For some, they need a nice full sound, for others, it's a bit thick and they're happier with a thinner clearer-sounding approach.

E500 is definitely a very interesting product. I dunno, I'm starting to come to the opinion that, as with full-sized cans, there are different approaches to designing these things from a sonic standpoint, and I don't know if there is one IEM that can "rule them all". Like the thick/thin split. You either got one or the other, or if you get something in the middle, you're missing out on the strengths of choosing one of the approaches. Sure some IEM are pretty clearly better than others, but once you hit the top ends, you just gotta find what fits for you.

You wouldn't happen to be able to point to any full-sized cans that you like?

Best,

-Jason

 

[garyd9]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjcha You wouldn't happen to be able to point to any full-sized cans that you like?

Okay, I'm home and pointing at them. What do you think? I sometimes think that they are a bit "thick" on the bass. This might just be my current impressions based on being used to the E3s. In the last year, I've actually preferred using the E3's over the normal headphones while at home. I can blame that directly on 2 children, however. IEM's definatly block out most of the annoying noises...












Oh, they are Sony MDR-7506's.

Keep in mind, however, that I've NEVER used these headphones as religiously as I use the IEM's. The IEM's live around my shoulders, while the 7506's live at home.

 

[Jasper994]

Quote:

Originally Posted by garyd9 So, to paraphrase, any of them (short of the ety's) would be closer to what I want, with the e500's being closest to ideal?

Yes, that's what I'm saying


Quote:

I'm not sure about the E4's due to another review you did (link in your sig) stating that "I wasn’t nearly as sold on the E4 until I switched to the foam tip." I tend to prefer the triple flange (or modified to dual-flange) tips. I wear these things for 8 to 14 hours a day, 5-7 days a week. In a given day, they are pulled out of my ears and re-inserted dozens of times. When I once tried to use the foams, I realized that a given pair wouldn't last me more than a couple days before I had to replace them. Given the current cost of foam tips, that translates to over $300 a year in tips... On the other hand, the flanges tend to last me about 8 months before I have to replace them. (the silicon starts to wear out and when I pull the IEMs out of my ears, the flanges will stay in my ears... thank god I have a pair of needle-nose pliers both at home and at work. )

I don't personally like the E4 with any of the other tips, but others do seem to be happy with them. There are new foamies on the horizon that are supposed to last significantly longer (around 10x from what I'm told), but that doesn't solve your "NOW NOW NOW!!!" attitude about it... If you're not keen on foamies, I think you'll have better overall performance out of one of the dual driver IEMs.

Quote:

When you say that the um2's tend to "scoop out the mids", do you mean that they subtract from them (scoop them out leaving a void) or add to them (scoop them out and push them up)? If they subtract from them, would you say that the effect would be similar to a 'cup' shaped equalizer (ie: the same as what I generally force the iPod to do)?

I'm talking about missing midrange... The E3's are rather mid-forward so you're probably flattening them with your EQ to a certain degree. That said, if you tend to like more bass and treble, with less mids, you may very well like the UM2 quite a bit.

Quote:

As for May turning to June - it matters quite a bit. I want them now. Now, I say! NOW! NOW! MINE! (Sorry. I have a two-year old daughter. She's teaching me bad habits... yeah.. thats it. it's her fault.)

Well, I suppose if you've gotta have something now, then you should just pick something... Doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but hey, different strokes right...