[mkyy]

Although the Highlander is little over the budget, I do think it's a nice car. Smooth ride. It's not necessary to go for the Limited version. I guess you'd be happy with the V6 4WD.

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by JMT Well, since the only off-roading that I will be doing will be driving in an unpaved parking lot, I mainly want something roomier than my Max, is dependable (I do a lot of driving), is stable on wet pavement....and makes me look very studly.

LOL -- at least you're honest about it

Quote:

I like the 4Runners but at +/-$30K, they are a tad expensive. Same with the Land Rovers. I was hoping to keep it nearer $25K or so. The Xterra should be on the list, and the I like the 275hp/275lbs torque of the Chevy. But, I have had bad experiences with GM cars in the past and am kind of reluctant to relive them.

Given what you're going to use it for, I'd also look for good gas mileage, comfortable ride, and dependability. (Don't I sound like a geezer? LOL)

The Pilot looks very nice; while it's a first-year car, the CR-Vs are excellent and well-thought-out (especially the new ones), so I'd expect the Pilot to be very good as well. Plus, you know a Honda will be reliable (thank god they got rid of the Passport). If I was in the market for your kind of car, the Pilot is probably the first place I'd look, especially given my excellent experiences with Hondas. This review hits on why I'd look at it:
http://www.auto.com/reviews/pilot29_20020629.htm

If you change your mind about requiring a V6, and the Pilot is too much, check out the newer CR-V (bigger engine, more rugged). We own an older one, and it's served us very well for the same uses you listed. The new ones are much better, though <jealous>.

The XTerra and FourRunners are both very nice small- to mid-size SUVs (and the ForeRunners seem to last forever), but I'd put them closer to the "real" SUV side since they ride very rough and don't handle very well on pavement. I like the XTerra better than the ForeRunner, personally. Same with Jeeps -- you *definitely* get a rough, truck ride with them (I have a friend with a one-year-old Grand Cherokee Limited, and talk about a rough ride!). Be sure that whatever you test drive, you take it over some bumps and around some tight corners. The FourRunner feels like it will tip over on a lot of city street turns

I'm not a big fan of the GM SUVs -- GM and Ford seem too caught up in the "my SUV is bigger than your SUV" thing, and you end up with unreliable, gas-guzzling monsters (except for the Liberty, which is closer to a Mazda than a Ford). Same with Dodge lately, it seems.

If you don't want something too big, you should seriously check out the Santa Fe. Hyundai has really turned themselves around over the past 5-10 years, and their cars are getting great reviews and have that 10-year warranty. I've seen a bunch of the Santa Fe's here in the city recently, and they look very nice; they're also a good compromise in size between the "compact" SUVs and the Explorer-size SUVs -- they still have lots of room and a V6, but they get good gas mileage and ride like a car. You just have to get over the anti-Hyundai bias that's lingering from 10 years ago

http://www.hyundaiusa.com/showroom/2...e/reviews.html

Personally, while a lot of the "my SUV is bigger than yours" people scoff at the car-chassis-based SUVs, IMO, if most of what you're going to be doing is on-road, the smaller SUVs give you a better ride, better handling, and better gas mileage, while still giving you 4WD, moderate off-road ability, and a lot more room than a car. Camping, ski trips to Tahoe, dirt-roads, etc... you're set with pretty much any SUV. Any reason in particular you're not considering 4-cylinder? Think "gas mileage" and "smooth ride"

 

[Tuberoller]

what's wrong with the Maxima that can't be fixed?I

own a 2002 GMC Yukon Denali XL and love it to death.Yeah it's big,but it's also fast and can tow around all my toys.It's cool to go buy something like a huge piece of furniture or TV and be able to take it with you,instead of having to arrange for later pick-up or delivery.I'm sorry you have had bad experiences with GM cars.I have had some awful experiences with BMW and Mercedes cars and trucks.I have never owned any Asian made cars or trucks.I say buy a big SUV or just stick with a car.

 

[Nick Dangerous]

Subaru 4WD wagon or VW Passat wagon! Both deliver a lot for the money: good mileage, awesome handling, good storage capacity, versatility, safety, are attractive, fun to drive, aren't prone to crushing rollover, and will confer a blessing upon your soul for not buying another dad gum SUV.

www.edmunds.com

If an SUV is a must... consider the Toyota Highlander. Edmund's recently did a roundup of midsize SUV's. Bookmark 'em. Edmund's RULES!!!

 

[Ari]

I like the 4Runners but at +/-$30K, they are a tad expensive. Same with the Land Rovers. I was hoping to keep it nearer $25K or so. The Xterra should be on the list, and the I like the 275hp/275lbs torque of the Chevy. But, I have had bad experiences with GM cars in the past and am kind of reluctant to relive them.
________________________

Hey, JMT

Sorry I can't help very much on "non-off-road" SUVs. I only can talk about Tuberoller's GMC Yukon. I had a Suburban for a long time and I like it very much. Same as Yukons. Tey are very solid and safe now.

I only would not recomend Monteros.

Ari

 

[lextek]

I'd stick with the First two in your list. Honda or Toyota. And forget the others.

 

[john_jcb]

One suggestion before you decide is to look at the cost of repairs for a 4WD. I have owned 2 over the last 14 years. An 88 Full size Bronco and now a Dodge Ram pickup. If you don't plan on going off road or in the snow I think you will find that the 4WD is an expensive option in the long run.

Ask the service department how hard it is to change the front rotors on your model of choice. The 4WDs that I have owned require some major disassembly and special tools to change a rotor. Parts are also more expensive throughout the vehicle.

Another thing I have noticed about the smaller SUVs is that the room they have for hauling is deceptive. The back gate looks expansive but it really isnt that big. I remember having problems even with the FS Bronco.

Lastly if you plan on towing make sure you get the towing package with increased cooling especially for the mountains. If you never plan on towing anything with much weight don't waste your $ on the bigger engines.

 

[Old Pa]

She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed is currently driving my 99 Maxima SE (nice car! much better than the Accord it replaced) and I'm in a 02 Outback VDC I picked up two weeks ago. The AWD Subuaru is the 3rd such subie in 16 years in a row and all have been dandy. They just keep getting better. Took the Maxima in for service yesterday, so SWMBO was out in the Outback VDC without adult supervision for the first time; she says she likes it better than the Maxima.

All three of the Subarus I have owned carry as much as the Mitsubishi Montero Sport I had once for a loaner, but handle like sports cars rather than trucks. [ASIDE: It remains hard for me to believe Detroit's marketing success in getting the usual American pavement driver to think they need some kind of truck for their main ride. I have driven a variety of trucks over the years and have been DELIGHTED to get out of each and every one. IMHO, Americans like trucks because they are BIG and INTIMIDATING just like the full size American cars of the 60s that CAFE standards forced off the market.] Handling, performance, and unobtrusive sneakiness are at the top of my list of vehicle attributes (harder to get a speeding ticket if you don't get noticed, harder yet with my Valentine One along).

The new VDC Outback with its 3.0l flat six engine and standard McIntosh stereo is amazing. The McIntosh stereo with its 11 speakers in seven locations and discrete five channel 200 watt amp (with 4 band parametric equalizer tuning it to the car) is the best stock stereo I've ever heard in a vehicle. I'm still breaking it in gently, but it EATS all domestic V8 SUVs and trucks. Little more understeer than the old Legacy Touring Wagon, but two inches more ground clearance for taking the spaniels to those Dark Places where the elusive grouse lurks. The additional height feels quite butch and SUVish to me without having a vehicle that drives like a truck. Unless you are off road more than 50% of the time with half a ton or cargo along, I would vote for getting a car to do car things.

Final Edit: Subie is @3400#, Highlander/RX300 and their ilk are over 4000# with no greater usable interior space - weight eats horsepower, overloads suspensions and tires and this kills performance, height raises center-of-gravity overloading suspension and tires and this kills handling. Having the same basic aerodynamic shape as a Coke vending machine eats horsepower and kills top end speed. You know what those SUV-truck qualities all do for gas mileage.

 

[hongda]

Possibly one of the ugliest Porsches or SUV's out there

Anyways, back on topic. The highlander was a pretty smooth ride. My co-worker looked into an Xterra and liked it for the headroom and interior space. She's about 6'2" I think so finding a car that fits is hard for her. Hmmm. 25k range eh? Dump the bulk and get a 350Z. 26k and dang if you don't look manly.

And Nissan is coming out with the Nissan Mureno.

 

[kerelybonto]

Oh God, Porsche's making a SUV now? I thought it was bad when BMW came out with theirs. ...

Who are these people?

kerelybonto

 

[MacDEF]

Yeah, Nick and Old Pa's rec of the Subaru wagons are also good... but so much for the "studly" part

(Nick, that Passat wagon is definitely the best looking wagon! And probably the most technically superior -- or the Audio A4, which is the same car).

I also have to totally agree with what Old Pa said:
Quote:

I have driven a variety of trucks over the years and have been DELIGHTED to get out of each and every one. IMHO, Americans like trucks because they are BIG and INTIMIDATING just like the full size American cars of the 60s that CAFE standards forced off the market.] Handling, performance, and unobtrusive sneakiness are at the top of my list of vehicle attributes

I think there is a definite "need" market for big SUVs and big trucks. But I think that market is pretty small compared to the "image" market.

I drove a Suburban for a couple years (this was back before the SUV craze -- we drove it because we needed to haul stuff for contruction and maintenance work) and I've driven a relative's Expedition and a couple other "big" SUVs in the past few years. Like Tube said, they're great for hauling stuff around. But on the other hand, you have to ask yourself (personally) how much you'll need that ability. If you need it frequently, great. But if you don't, is it worth the mucho extra $ you'll pay for gas and insurance? Or the hassle to find a decent parking space when you drive to the city?

Quote:

john_jcb wrote: Another thing I have noticed about the smaller SUVs is that the room they have for hauling is deceptive. The back gate looks expansive but it really isnt that big. I remember having problems even with the FS Bronco.

It really depends. A friend has a Rav4, and it doesn't have much space at all. Another friend has a Forrester, and it has great cargo room. The CR-V has more room in the back than a Ford Explorer. And it also depends on seating. The CR-V has more room in back than a Pilot, because the Pilot has three rows of seats. But the Pilot has much more when all the seats are collapsed.

But john made a very good point about repairs; a 4WD car will always cost more to maintain. The car-based models tend to be cheaper because of the type of 4WD they use, but even they're more expensive to maintain than a reliable 2WD car. So I agree with john that you should really consider how much you need 4WD. A good 2WD with anti-lock brakes may be suitable.

Don't you love getting all these replies, JMT?

 

[orl2222]

JMT. take a look at the GMC Envoy. Fully hydro-formed frame-23-24% stronger than heated frames. Full lader frame, eight cross members. 4.2 liter I6.. 275hp, 275 ftps of torque. Variable valve timing.. 6200 lbs towing capacity. 17" tires standard. Remember that the Honda Pilot is built on a Unibody frame.. like a car.. Yes Isound like im advertising.. But heck im a PBG product Trainer!

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by orl2222 Remember that the Honda Pilot is built on a Unibody frame.. like a car

True. That's either good or bad. The unibody/car frames offer a smoother ride, better handling, and much better on-road performance, while "truck" frames like on the Envoy provide much better off-road performance and are more rugged for difficult loads. Depends on what you actually need the car to do.

 

[orl2222]

Envoy uses a Tuned frame at 23hz for better road feel and handling.. Honda doesnt. Its like audio systems You can believe the hype, or road test for your self

 

[acs236]

For 25k, considering you want more room than your Maxima -- what about the Jeep Liberty? Unfortunately, 25k for an SUV demands some compromises. If you didn't need the size, I think a Subaru would meet the rest of your criteria.