[auradud3]

Hello all, i am stepping into the world of high res music. Unfortunately with blinders on, i currently run an i touch5 w/Oppo HA-2, and all my files are apple lossless and my IEM's are GR 10e's. its really a nice system but i know there are so many levels to this hobby, i am reaching for the next level. I recently purchased a pair of Aurisonics ASG 2.5's and i have an Astell&Kern AK120II on its way, i will not download my entire apple library onto the AK120II, so, this leaves me facing learning how to buy  the proper format, use the proper programs on my Ipad or Imac mini, to make my system work. i have no experience with anything but good old itunes with all its limitations, and i would love to begin learning the ropes on high res and its applications in regards to my new set up.
 
Supports DSD format up to 5.6MHz
 
 

1. WAV, FLAC, WMA, MP3, OGG, APE(Normal, High, Fast), AAC, ALAC, AIFF, DFF, DSF
2. FLAC, WAV, ALAC, AIFF : 8kHz ~ 192kHz (8/16/24bits per Sample)
   / DSD : DSD64 (1bit 2.8MHz), Stereo / DSD128 (1bit 5.6MHz), Stereo
3.  

all of these terms are just that.. terms, i have been on Head-Fi for years and years, mostly attempting to keep track of emerging technologies, so in truth i have no practical applications experience
 
 
 
all help would be appreciated, if there are links i somehow missed great! please point the way

 

[KG Jag]

Download some free sample tracks in various formats and types from places like HD Tracks, Linn Records and others.  Put them on your A & K and do your own sound tests.

 

[auradud3]

hello and thanks for your response, after alot of googling i came to the same conclusion and have done some downloading, just might be easier than i thought!

 

[Music Alchemist]

It's even simpler: the only thing that really matters is the recording and master. As long as the files are 256 kbps AAC or higher, it's highly unlikely that anyone would be able to reliably distinguish between them. I have researched and tested these things extensively. Basically, the laws of physics prohibit hi-res from having any benefit in terms of audio playback due to the fact that 16-bit already has more than enough dynamic range to handle anything, and frequencies above roughly 20 kHz are inaudible to humans. Here is a great article going into detail about it. To test this out yourself, just convert a 24-bit file to 16-bit / 44.1 kHz. Both files should sound exactly the same. Anyway...some hi-res downloads are worth buying, if they are exclusive content and/or were derived from a different master. However, others are the same master as the CD version and consequently sound the same. You usually can't tell beforehand, so it's something of a gamble. Here is a list of hi-res music stores. Oh, and here is my thread with lots of free music downloads. At the bottom of the first post is a link to many hi-res downloads. For portable use, I would recommend converting your files to 256 kbps AAC in order to maximize your available storage space. (Assuming you have a large music collection.) And of course, it's a good idea to back up all the original files. Hope this helps!

 

[muziq]

Having gone down this road myself in the last year, the only thing I can add to the info of other posters is to pick out 2-3 albums you already have and know well, and buy DSD versions or high res FLAC/ALAC/WAV versions and do some comparing.  See what you hear that's different, and if it's worth the cash, start buying more high res over time.  
 
I started out with a fairly pedestrian rig:  iTunes on the MBP, playing AAC and ALACs straight out to Shure 535s or through whatever iPhone model I had at the time.  That was two years ago.  Today, *one* of my rigs is a RWAK 240+ going to CTM500Elites with DHC Symbiote 8-wire silver cables using a mix of ALAC, WAV, FLAC and DSD single and double rate albums.  
 
My test album is one I know from childhood:  Dave Brubeck Quartet's Time Out.  My dad used to play it all the time on his old Sansui system from vinyl when I was a toddler, and over the years I've moved from listening on cassette to CD to mint copies of the original vinyl to Sony's K2HD CD and now on DSD.  I've read the music myself, even played bits and pieces over the years.  I *know* that music and recording very well, so going from virgin vinyl and CD to DSD about a year ago was a litmus test for me in terms of the format.
 
What did I hear from the DSD?  Just a hair more detail.  A bit more air.  A scintilla of extra depth and soundstage.  
 
Are my ears convinced?  Yes, with the caveat that all the other pieces in my new rig played some role.  Was it worth it, all the cash and iterating?  Yes.  
 
That said, I didn't start converting all of my purchases to DSD, and I still buy a big mix of all the other formats.  There's hundreds of threads on how to integrate software and hardware, cables and interconnects, yada yada yada.  That stuff comes in time and it's fun to experiment with new pieces.  
 
But perhaps the one big thing that changed for me:  I'm still trying to find new ways to refine my listening experience with little upgrades here and there.  Before I made the jump to the AK, I had that iTunes/iPhone/Shure setup for *years*.  Now I'm adding little enhancements every few months.  That's almost as much fun as just sitting back and listening for hours like I have this morning, with a nice fresh mocha and a vintage cigar on the porch.  
 
So, yeah, sorry about your wallet.  Enjoy!

 

[Music Alchemist]

Many of those DSD recordings are superb and well worth pursuing.
 
Background info on the format: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_Stream_Digital

 

[auradud3]

thanks so much Music Alchemist & Muziq, as soon as i saw your responses i began my search and think i have a good start on the way to higher fidelity! i have begun researching and i am now waiting on my A&K to arrive, very very anxious! now that i am retired i figured its now or never! and i also believe the small things really do matter in terms of sound.
 
Muziq i'd be interested in the ways you have gone about in your search for even more tweeks to achieve these minute details in sound quality
 
 
i all thanks you guys for a place to start, it can be daunting at times.

 

[auradud3]

those are some killer articles M.A.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

 
Supports DSD format up to 5.6MHz

 

I'll let everyone handle everything else and I'll take on this one (as I seem to be always). DSD/SACD requires a 1-bit, 2.8Mhz DAC, whereas PCM (aka every other digital file you listen to, essentially) needs a chip that can do anywhere from 16bit to 32bit and 44.1Khz to 384Khz. Note how different those DAC specs are, already highlighted.

 
What such players do essentially is use a dedicated chip or their own processor chip to convert DSD to PCM. Basically, the only benefit you'll be getting from listening to SACDs/DSDs in that player is only that you will be listening to an album that probably has better mastering. That said, if both copies are properly mastered, PCM even at 16/44.1 isn't going to be too far off from DSD, while at the same time there are badly mastered SACD releases out there (including those from audiophile recording outfits). 
 
At worst, if it's a portable player like what you're looking for, the on the fly conversion might actually add noise, and at the very least, it will give the player's processor more work to do, hence shorter battery life.
 
Basically, unless you're using a real 1bit/2.8Mhz DSD DAC, the costs of using SACDs and DSDs aren't worth it, save for if you have an SACD player at home and just want to listen to them on the go (then again, you can just convert them to PCM at home, instead of draining the battery on your portable player).

 

[muziq]

 
Muziq i'd be interested in the ways you have gone about in your search for even more tweeks to achieve these minute details in sound quality

 
Definitely it can be daunting.  Just keep reading.  And talk with people, go to meets, etc.  
 
Some of the little tweaks on my journey so far...and by little, I don't always mean financially.
 
*For my Shure 535s, I swapped out the standard dampers for Knowles dampers that tune for different frequencies.  I also swapped out the stock cable for a silver Oiyade cable.  Both together made  nice improvement.  These were fairly cheap upgrades.
 
*Separate portable amp/dac:  my first "real" upgrade was to add an ALO International amp/dac between my iPhone and Shures.  You can get a lot of mileage out of a separate dac/amp or just an amp.  But you also get to spend money on the interconnects.  
 
*For my CTMs, I went whole-hog with the cabling.  The DHC Symbiote SP2 OCC silver 8-wire balanced cable with balanced 2.5mm TRRS plug, for plugging into the RWAK.  Damned near cost more than my CTMs, but I like 'em.  
 
*Balanced vs. single-ended:  one may provide a blacker background, the other saves on battery charge.  YMMV.
 
*And of course, just a stock AK240 wasn't enough.  I had to go and RWAK it.  Vinnie at Red Wine Audio did a great job and I'm very pleased with the outcome.  
 
More recently, I ventured into a desktop rig with Alpha Primes, more DHC cabling, Schiit Lyr2 with a few different sets of tubes, and Bifrost Uber USB.  Oh, then I added Loki for desktop DSD...then Wyred just to have more Schiit boxes on my desk.   Then there were the Moon Audio USB cables and interconnects...
 
IT NEVER ENDS!!!
 
Have fun!

 

[Music Alchemist]

 

I'll let everyone handle everything else and I'll take on this one (as I seem to be always). DSD/SACD requires a 1-bit, 2.8Mhz DAC, whereas PCM (aka every other digital file you listen to, essentially) needs a chip that can do anywhere from 16bit to 32bit and 44.1Khz to 384Khz. Note how different those DAC specs are, already highlighted.

 
What such players do essentially is use a dedicated chip or their own processor chip to convert DSD to PCM. Basically, the only benefit you'll be getting from listening to SACDs/DSDs in that player is only that you will be listening to an album that probably has better mastering. That said, if both copies are properly mastered, PCM even at 16/44.1 isn't going to be too far off from DSD, while at the same time there are badly mastered SACD releases out there (including those from audiophile recording outfits). 
 
At worst, if it's a portable player like what you're looking for, the on the fly conversion might actually add noise, and at the very least, it will give the player's processor more work to do, hence shorter battery life.
 
Basically, unless you're using a real 1bit/2.8Mhz DSD DAC, the costs of using SACDs and DSDs aren't worth it, save for if you have an SACD player at home and just want to listen to them on the go (then again, you can just convert them to PCM at home, instead of draining the battery on your portable player).

 
I thought at least some of the Astell&Kern players support native DSD, without converting to PCM. That's what their website says, anyway.
 
(I agree with everything else you said.)

 

[auradud3]

interesting stuff here guys, i'm getting an instant education, my A&K  is upstairs charging, i did listen to the onboard files. very very nice. yes from my reading the DSD will be converted on my layer, others i believe DSD is native

 

[KG Jag]

 

 

I'll let everyone handle everything else and I'll take on this one (as I seem to be always). DSD/SACD requires a 1-bit, 2.8Mhz DAC, whereas PCM (aka every other digital file you listen to, essentially) needs a chip that can do anywhere from 16bit to 32bit and 44.1Khz to 384Khz. Note how different those DAC specs are, already highlighted.

 
What such players do essentially is use a dedicated chip or their own processor chip to convert DSD to PCM. Basically, the only benefit you'll be getting from listening to SACDs/DSDs in that player is only that you will be listening to an album that probably has better mastering. That said, if both copies are properly mastered, PCM even at 16/44.1 isn't going to be too far off from DSD, while at the same time there are badly mastered SACD releases out there (including those from audiophile recording outfits). 
 
At worst, if it's a portable player like what you're looking for, the on the fly conversion might actually add noise, and at the very least, it will give the player's processor more work to do, hence shorter battery life.
 
Basically, unless you're using a real 1bit/2.8Mhz DSD DAC, the costs of using SACDs and DSDs aren't worth it, save for if you have an SACD player at home and just want to listen to them on the go (then again, you can just convert them to PCM at home, instead of draining the battery on your portable player).

 
I thought at least some of the Astell&Kern players support native DSD, without converting to PCM. That's what their website says, anyway.
 
(I agree with everything else you said.)

"Even" the AK100 does with current software.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

   
I thought at least some of the Astell&Kern players support native DSD, without converting to PCM. That's what their website says, anyway.

 
I'm not sure how they can do that with a PCM DAC chip, unless it has two. The reason why it's usually downsampled to PCM is because of the extremely high native sample rate on DSD.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  I'm not sure how they can do that with a PCM DAC chip, unless it has two. The reason why it's usually downsampled to PCM is because of the extremely high native sample rate on DSD.

 
Read the info on these links for a sample of how they do native DSD.
 
http://astellnkern.com/eng/htm/ak240/ak240_feature01.asp
http://astellnkern.com/eng/htm/ak380/ak380_feature01.asp