[kali77]

Hello All, I am new here and to headphones. I am however not new to hifi audio. I have recently sold my current audio rig, do to a move and downsizing. What I am looking for is a headphone that is semi portable, can take them out and about for a couple hrs if needed. Main listening will be at home in the evenings. The phones will be run from my ipod and I am looking for a nice portable amp (came across ibasso). I listen to everything from Reggae, Bluegrass, Jazz, to Blues. I was considering the AKG 702 or the Audio Technica ATH-M50. Being new to this I am not sure if I can run these with just my ipod(while out and about) or if a portable amp is necessary? Also looking for a decent portable amp to run with these for around $100-180. Any and all suggestions are welcome, thanks.

 

[kali77]

Let me rephrase this, I have roughly $500 to spend on a set of cans and amp. I will be playing through my 160gig iPod. I listen to a wide array of music but a lot of reggae. Listening will primarily be at home, but would like to be able to take with me if needed. Mods if this should be in another forum feel free to move, thanks.

 

[EddieE]

ATH-M50 can be driven from an ipod just fine, K702 less so. If you had a different digital audio player with some sound enhancements or a good equaliser, the K702 can sound pretty nice, but with an ipod the lack of bass the K702 display umamped will be very obvious. From any digital audio player they will be a shadow of their full potential. 
 
ETA: They will be better with a powerful portable amp though, I should add as you say you'll be getting one.
 
In terms of the K702 in general. I really like them but I wouldn't want them as my one set of headphones. They sound great with electronica and I like them with classical too, any layered music really works great. They have a huge soundstage which should suit someone more used to speakers. But they aren't great all rounders like the HD650 are.
 
The M50 are great portable phones, comfortable, good isolation, very efficient they sound fun and do good business with pretty much all genres... but I've never considered them good enough for sit down at home listening. They're just not that special in any one area.

 

[kali77]

EddieE,
 
Thank you very much for the reply. I am used to sitting down in my listening room, so an open soundstage is key. My old rig was Odyssey Audio Loreleis speakers, Plinius 8200 MKii amp, Audio Aero Prima Mkii cd, and all acoustic zen cabling(missing that system already).... Anyway after doing quite a bit of reading this afternoon, I am leaning towards the Ibasso PB1 Toucan or Alo RX amp and OCC triple pipe cable, and the K702's, or maybe going with the ESW9's as they maybe less bulky for going out with them. Not sure yet going to do some more research, I can see my budget growing already
 
Will check out the 650's also

 

[EddieE]

I've not heard any of those amps but the toucan is said to be one of the most powerful portable amps available so sounds like it could be a wise choice if you are considering the K702, which do near a fair old wallop of power.
 
How important is bass volume to you by the way? For me the K702 bass is great, but it is at a lower volume than a lot of other phones? Conversely, if you like your bass tight, the HD650 would have perhaps too much bass. A middle road option could be the DT880 which I don't own but spent a while listening to at a meet and thought sounded great. It has an advantage or two as well.
 
It is semi open and can be modded to be closed with reported good results. If you are planning on wearing these phones out then sound isolation, or the lack of it with open phones, could become an issue.
 
The other advantage is that the standard 250ohm version should be powered OK  by any decent portable amp, but that it also comes in a 32ohm version that will run well even out of the hp out.
 
Many people will act as though it is sacrilage to get a 32ohm version, but the headroom graphs do not suggest a huge difference:
 
http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID[]=963&graphID[]=953

 

[elnero]

kali77,
 
Are you considering this a starting point or an end point? Trying to build one system that covers both portable and home use can be a tricky task especially given what sounds like a preference for a large open soundstage which suggests open headphones. On the go open headphones are going to do two things that are bad, one they will offer no isolation from the outside world so you'll have the urge to turn up the music louder than you probably should and two, they will leak sound like a sieve annoying the crap out of anyone around you.
 
While it's possible to drive headphones like the K702 or HD650 with a portable amp my experience has been that headphones like those work better with beefier home amps that are better suited to handle their more demanding loads. I've not owned the K702's but have tried the K701's (same thing, different color) on a few occasions and while I thought they were ok I never felt compelled to take it any further than those brief listens. If you prefer a more speaker like presentation you may like the HD650's but I've personally found the way they treat the soundstage odd and without an amp to really grab hold and take charge I've found that whole range of HD580, HD600, HD650's to sound a bit slow and underwhelming. My suggestion though would be, if you're looking for one headphone to do both home and portable that you go with a closed back headphone or an in ear monitor (IEM's). The ESW9's are a decent phone though ultimately I traded them because I found myself reaching for my IEM's over them even when in my home environment.
 
Here's another suggestion, if you're intent on just one phone for both home and portable avoid harder to drive headphones because regardless of what's said I personally think you'll only hear a fraction of their full potential using a portable amp. When I downsized and went to a mainly portable/transportable rig the cornerstone of my system became my Pico DAC/Amp, I listen mainly at home or at work via a computer setup and the Pico has an extremely high quality and well executed USB DAC which was the real selling point for me. The amp is quite good, relatively neutral and transparent for a portable amp but at it's heart it's still a portable amp so I've typically steered away from harder to drive phones. Because my phones are typically not that hard to drive I don't tend to bother with an amp when out and about as I don't feel the sonic advantage of amping my iPhone outweighs the inconvenience of the added bulk of an amp. I don't really listen much on the go though so someone using them more in that situation might be inclined to want more.
 
A big question I have is what kind of system do you intend to listen to at home? Is it going to be thoroughly iPod based or do you intend to use a computer or CD player? That decision could determine what you get as far as an amp goes. If you're going to use more than just an iPod you could consider a DAC/Amp combo that could be used as an amp only with your iPod or as a DAC and amp with a computer or CD player. Of course what type of transport you use would also determine your connection needs, there's a plethora of USB DAC/Amp's out there, some, like the NuForce uDAC are very reasonably priced for the sound you get but with a USB DAC you're limited to USB input for the DAC so if you need coax or optical you have to look at something a bit more elaborate and typically larger.
 
$500 sounds like a lot but in reality it's a rather limited budget to build a high quality system around. I have this urge to suggest that if you're main listening will be done at home and you have a preference for open headphones that you may be better off building a decent home system and getting a pair of closed phones or IEM's for use on the go. You're standing at the edge of the rabbit hole about to take the plunge, a lot of money can be spent so I'd suggest you do lot's of research before making the plunge. If you're anywhere near where a meet takes place you should go, a meet isn't the best environment to listen and come to definitive conclusions but it can give you good idea of what you want to pursue and listen to further. Of course the other route is to increase your initial budget significantly and go straight to the top. First, go to your audiologist to get ear impressions made, send them to JH Audio and get a pair of 13Pro custom IEM's, for me these are audio nirvana, just about the best audio I've heard and I've heard a lot. The crazy thing is you can throw them in your pocket and they sound incredible straight out of an iPod but scale extremely well when used with higher end gear. Yes, the 13Pro's are about double your budget but in the long run I'd bet you save a significant amount.

 

[EddieE]

The K702 are fine through my portable amp (Pico), perhaps a tiny bit better through my desktop, but I do think the "K70* are impossible to amp" meme is hugely over-exaggerated. I know a lot of other people agree but don't want to get in front of the group-think juggernaut on that one.
 
HD650 just need power, some of the meatier portable amps will do the job fine. The Pico doesn't quite do it full justice but the Predator did and from what I've been told from reliable sources both the Arrow and 3Move will too. The Toucan, if claims about its abilities are correct, shouldn't have a problem.
 
Again of course a desktop does it a bit better, but that's to be expected. The question is will those phones be enjoyable through a powerful portable amp, and the answer is absolutely yes. 
 
Will sound isolation (or lack of it) then be a problem? Quite possibly, but it depends where you take them.
 
The IEM suggestion is a good one, but not good for everyone. It depends on your ears. IEMs make my ears sore after a while of listening, and if you are prone to ear infections like me, they are not a healthy option. I try and avoid using them for more than an hour or two a day for commuting and wouldn't want my sole pair of headphones to be IEMs.

 

[elnero]

Sure a portable amp will work but based on my own experiences I don't think they will let you hear what the phones are fully capable of. This may be a bit of an extreme analogy but it should get the point across, it's much like trying to drive a speaker that's a difficult load with low power SET amp. IMO, if harder to drive headphones are being used a good portable amp can be a decent starting point but I don't think it should be considered the end point otherwise I'd look elsewhere. This issue has been discussed at length here for quite some time, in fact this thread used to be a sticky at the top of the portable amps forum before the recent forum facelift.

 

[kali77]

Thanks for all the great input and points guys. Portability is somewhat important but not a must. I will be playing primarily through my ipod(holds most of my library with a 140gb's full). I have a decent PC, so if there is an advantage to playing through that with my itunes, I am all ears. My budget is probably more around the $600-650 range. Bass is important as I listen to a lot of reggae. I will not say this is the last setup I will have, as I know the audio hobby all to well to say that. On my home rig, I went through, Proac Response 2's, Green Mountain Callisto's, and then the Odyssey Lorelei's, not to mention all the amps I went through from tube to SS. However I would like to get this somewhat right on the first go around. I am thinking a nice set of cans(not sure which one's), and probably the toucan for starters. That will let me listen at home and on the go for now, and then as I break in the phones, I can save for a decent home amp and maybe some midrange iem's. I do want closed cans as my listening at home will be around others at times, which is a bummer because a wide open soundstage is an important factor to me. Looks like I have a lot of reading to do.
 
What are the major disadvantages of using my ipod as my source? Am I limited on dac options? Or can I bypass and still use an external dac?
 
Thanks!

 

[kali77]

What would I need to run from my PC to my phones? Still hoping to keep the amp/dac portable. Is there a product I can use on the go and connect to my PC at home? Would the ibasso d10 fit this bill? Looking to place some orders this weekend, also looking for some good sites that have good prices on the Beyer 990, AKG 702, and HD650. The price I spend on cans will affect what route I can go for amp/dac.

 

[likemarlon]

I use an Ibasso D4 both on the go with my ipod as a standalone amp and at home connected to my pc via usb cable as an amp/dac combo. I would assume the D10 would be the same.
 
As for whether either of these portables would be able to do justice to the headphones you mention, you'd have to wait for a more experienced opinion

 

[kali77]

Thanks Likemarlon. really liking the pico/dac combo, unfortunately it is out of my price point a bit. Anyone know if the ibasso can power the beyer 880's 250 or 600ohm properly? What would be the advantage/disadvantage of 250 or 600ohm if any. Also any major differences in the 880 and 990?

 

[elnero]

For the most part portable players like iPod's are only mediocre sources with mediocre headphone amplifiers, there may be a couple of exceptions to the rule but those are typically quite expensive. There are a few ways to get to get a digital signal out of an iPod but the ones I know of are not very cost effective, the same can be said of most portable players thus the reason that portable amps are so popular, in many cases you can at least get a proper line out of a portable player thus bypassing the players internal headphone amplifier which typically are somewhat underwhelming performers. In order to utilize a proper line out from an iPod you have to use a line out dock cable (LOD).
 
If your PC has coax or optical audio output that opens you up to using almost any DAC but the majority of portable DAC/Amp combo's are USB only. Using your PC with a USB DAC/Amp would potentially give you a serious improvement over using the iPod as your source, of course how much improvement will solely be dependent on the quality of the external DAC. The main downside here is size as a DAC/Amp combo unit is going to add size that you don't necessarily want if you intend on using it as an amp on the go. You could go with separates like a Pico DAC only and Pico Slim amp but that costs more than the DAC/Amp combo so probably not a feasible option.
 
Outside of the Pico DAC/Amp I'm not sure what to suggest as I haven't heard many of the newer portables. I should note though, I took a quick look on iBasso's site and it looks like the Toucan you've mentioned on a couple of occasions is a balanced portable amp, unless you intend to rewire your phones to balanced then I'd say that one is not an option for you.
 
I'm a bit confused, you previously mentioned that you would need closed phones but you are still talking K702, HD650, DT990 and DT880 which are all open headphones. For reasonably priced closed headphones I'd suggest looking at the Shure SH840's, Fisher Audio FA-003's and some of the Audio Technica lineup including the previously mentioned ESW9's.
 
EDIT: Also, don't be afraid to make use of the for sale forum's here, buying used will typically save you quite a bit of cash, potentially with a bit of patience you could get a Pico DAC/Amp, LOD cable and a pair of Shure SH840's well within your budget. Just try to make sure you deal with people that have good feedback.

 

[kali77]

Elnero, You are confused because I am a bit confused lol..... Sorry just not sure what avenue to take yet. Basically was thinking closed cans because listening at home will be around my wife and family at times. But keep mentioning open cans because I really want a more open soundstage presentation. Let me tell you how I plan to use the system and maybe that will help.


 


I want something that I can connect to my PC in my bedroom for evening/night listening. I also want it to be somewhat portable so I can listen on the deck, and at my Son's football practices. Now with that being said I suppose the latter two are not as important, so if I can get much more bang for my buck by getting a system dedicated to my bedroom(not portable) I guess that would be fine. At this point I have decided on open cans(because soundstage is more important right now), just cant decide between the HD650, Beyer 880/990, or K702's. Not sure which of three would be easiest to drive but that would be the way I would lean as my budget for amp/dac is limited. I still really think the ibasso d10 or d4 fit my needs and budget. It will allow me portability with my ipod using the amp section, and then allow me to connect to my PC via USB and use both amp/dac section. The main question is can it drive any of the above listed cans properly.


 


Again I am open to suggestions, on amp combos that work well with any of the above listed cans. My budget for an amp/dac portable or stationary is 250-300 maybe more depending on the set of phones chosen. Also I would like the amp/dac to be easily connected to my PC via usb(if possible).

 

[EddieE]

If reggae is your favourite genre, my favourite reggae phones from my collection is the HD650 - which are great all-rounders but really do win the prize when it comes to reggae.
 
I think the above suggestion of looking for a portable dac/amp rather than just a portable amp is a brilliant one - much better value for money and it is true that audio streamed straight from the computer is a cut above that out of a digital audio player.
 
I recently wrote some impressions of the ones I have owned at abi forums here.
 
In terms of your budget - headfi classifieds - if you're patient and keep your eye on them you can pick up some real bargains.
 
I don't think it's entirely unrealistic to pick up a nice portable dac/amp and one of the phones we are discussing here within budget or just a bit over with a bit of patience for the right deal.