[anoobis]

So, I've just picked up a JBS CMoyBB and a Meier Arietta. I must admit that my initial impression was that of being underwhelmed. Let me elaborate.

Initially I tried out the amps using low impedance (32 Ohm) phones: Sennheiser PX100 and HD497. I realise that these 'phones have a fairly high sensitivity (112dB SPL) but I had been working on the basis that almost all sources would not be able to supply enough current. Seems I was wrong as I was struggling to notice much of a difference.

On listening more (mostly to the CMoy) there is an improvement, it's just more subtle than I was expecting. Smoother and more rounded is the description I would use. However, while the sound is better, it is not a dramatic difference and I still believe that the sources were able to supply enough current (or very nearly so). This sound difference also goes for the Beyer DT231 but the amp does seem to help the source out a bit more here (96dB SPL).

I couldn't tell much difference between the CMoy and the Arietta using these headphones. In retrospect, this isn't surprising, as it seems they were already been driven well enough.

Next I tried the amps with Beyer DT931 (250 Ohm, 96dB SPL). Here I was expecting to hear a more noticeable improvement, particulary a fuller bass. There are many tracks on which I feel that the lower parts are at a lower level than they should be and expected that an amp would rectify this. So far, not so. On one hand, I felt that my source should be able to drive these headphones as they are easily loud enough at 3.5/10. However, given the number of posts advocating amps, I was also expecting more of an improvement in sound quality with the higher impedance (and generally better) headphones. Currently, I am also failing to notice much (any?) of an improvement going from the CMoy to the Arietta.

Are the DT931s still not hard enough to drive for an amp to be worthwhile?

Am I missing something else or does everything just need burning in more? As alluded to earlier, many posts give the impression of 'night and day' differences.


Well, those are my initial impressions. As it stands, I think _an_ amp was a good idea but I'm not yet convinced of the scale of the effect or of how well my components complement each other.

I'd be very interested to hear others' first impressions with amps.

 

[NiceCans]

Quote:

Originally Posted by anoobis /img/forum/go_quote.gif As alluded to earlier, many posts give the impression of 'night and day' differences.

One man's 'night & day' difference is another man's 'slight improvement'

It is very difficult to describe sound quality using words as well as to quantify differences, much like trying to describe architecture using flavors.

 

[digismurf]

It could be your source...an amp's just going to amplify what's fed into it, so if your source lacks detail/qualities you want to hear you're not going to improve things with an amp.

I find A/B testing between amps reveals the biggest difference when listening to detailed music like vocal jazz (ie. Diana Krall, Jane Monheit) or demanding music like some classical pieces. If you listen for the breathe between passages taken by the singer or how instruments actually sound. Some amps you don't hear such details others it's plain as day, then you miss it when you listen to other stuff. "Hey this doesn't sound right". Of course it goes both ways some music sounds "worse" on better equipment because the faults in the recordings become so apparent. It's the evil slippery slope of A/B listening...

 

[socrates63]

My first experience with an amp was a cmoy I bought on ebay after reading about amps on Head-Fi. I hooked it up to a iRiver flash player and my MX500 earbud and Grado SR60. I was immediately blown away by improved dynamics and separation of the sound. There was a noticeable background hiss when the music wasn't playing, but that was easily forgiven with the improvements I heard.

After buying a RSA SR-71, I gave the cmoy to my brother-in-law to try. He couldn't hear an improvement.

If you don't hear what the others are raving about or you don't feel the improvements are worth it, then that's OK. Be happy for yourself and your wallet.

Or, you could go higher up the amp chain

.

Seriously, if you want to try more amps, I suggest finding a Head-Fi meet in your area. If that's not practical, get a Mini³, a portable that is as good as much more expensive commercial portable amps. Given it's relatively low cost, the financial risk is low.

 

[greggf]

There's a fine line bewteen "better" and just "different".

I suspect a lot of people in this hobby get excited about a first amp or a new amp, and make the mistake of thinking that it's better, when what it is is simply different. Different is not better.

A lot of amps, especially cheaper ones or portables, do very little.

I guess you have to hang around here, plus take a few risks, plus use your own ears, to figure out what really works to make actual improvements.

 

[anoobis]

Shopper, the opamp is OPA2227P. Don't think there's a separate one for BB.

BTW, it's a JDS cmoy, not JBS as I put in the original post.

It does make a more noticeable difference with the rubbish sound card (ATI Azalia?) on my work's PC (and rubbish headphones). Everything sounds flatter w/o the amp.

 

[majkel]

Holly crap, how can a stock amp sound no better than a OPA2227 driven Cmoy?

I hate this op-amp, it's dull, dark, lifeless, boring and the like.

For me this is clear that the source is of poor quality and you take advantage of the Cmoy hiding some source imperfections.

I have to agree that people say "better" instead of "different" because they more appreciate one sonic feature over another, and they use a quantitative measure of a certain sound content to formulate a general opinion.
I can say that there is a definite improvement when upgrading a source, getting better details, instrument separation, textural and layering abilities, smoothness, dynamics and so on, while the amp is just another analog stage, where no signal conversion and conditioning happens, so there is less field of improvement - no clock jitter, lost bits, signal interference, worn out cart needle, etc. I know that there are worse and better sounding amps but I think that it's the source that can go really low. Even using a Cmoy you will distinguish a decent CD player from a budget soundard. Just my $0.02.

 

[feifan]

I second Socrates63's suggestion that you try out some quality rigs to establish a baseline. When you hear the higher end possibilities, you'll have a better feel for what you have. I know that with my earlier amps and cans, the SQ differences were slight, and I, too, wondered what all the fuss was about. As you step up the ladder, though, you'll begin to appreciate quick, tight, deep, and punchy bass; clear separation; definition and accuracy; vast soundstage; completely black background. Once you experience the feeling that you've never really heard your recordings until right now, you won't know what you're missing.

 

[anoobis]

Guys,

When I originally posted, I hadn't tried the soundcard at all. To avoid confusion, I'm not saying that the s/c sounds great, just that, because it's so weedy unamped, the CMoy seems to make the most noticeable improvement with that setup.

I understand that the expectation is that higher end equipment should see larger improvements. FWIW, I've used a PCDP, PMDP and a standalone Yamaha CDX-E400 CDP. I didn't have the opportunity to try the DT931s with the Yamaha. None of these are high end but neither are they low end (in particular, I think that the portables are good for portables). However, maybe that's where I'm wrong and the sources are still the bottle neck.

I have heard the changes that feifan has described, just not as pronounced as I expected. In particular (as I'm sure I've mentioned), I expected the relative level of some bass guitar parts to be increased. I know that they are there: I've heard that track on HD600 unamped from a Marantz CDP (couldn't tell you the model). So, while I know that my kit isn't there overall, I expected a bigger improvement with DT931 amped with an Arietta.

Don't know if that gives more of a clue as to whether it really is the sources.

Thanks for the interest. I'll keep on the lookout for opportunities to try other gear. In the meantime, any other anecdotes/experiences are appreciated.