NEW Sony Walkman Z Series mini review!!!
May 30, 2012 at 5:05 PM Post #1,892 of 4,019
So do you suggest that a non-European unit may measure with very different results then?


That's exactly my point. The output impedance of a Sony Z intended for the UE is far higher than the output impedance of say the japanese version. It's the absurd way in which Sony complies with the volume cap regulation that is in place here in Europe.

And when i didn't care about numbers was when i did more bad purchases. Since i gather accurate and objective data my bad purchases book is empty.
 
May 30, 2012 at 5:20 PM Post #1,893 of 4,019
Quote:
That's exactly my point. The output impedance of a Sony Z intended for the UE is far higher than the output impedance of say the japanese version. It's the absurd way in which Sony complies with the volume cap regulation that is in place here in Europe.
 

 
any official links... not that I doubt your reknown expertise... best to back-up statements don't you think?
 
May 30, 2012 at 5:35 PM Post #1,894 of 4,019
Get to know what the output impedance is. Get to know the TF10 impedance curve.
Then check the frequency response graph from Markus Kraus RMAA of the Sony Z driving a TF10. Really, it's not rocket science.

You can as well email the folks of Goldenears and they will let you know about capping UE devices by raising the output impedance.
 
May 30, 2012 at 5:56 PM Post #1,895 of 4,019
Quote:
Get to know what the output impedance is. Get to know the TF10 impedance curve.
Then check the frequency response graph from Markus Kraus RMAA of the Sony Z driving a TF10. Really, it's not rocket science.
You can as well email the folks of Goldenears and they will let you know about capping UE devices by raising the output impedance.

 
it's not really 'rocket-science' as you so aptly put it to provide officially provided data to your claims & I really can't be arsed to be your goffer by emailing all & sundry... seeing as you seem to know so much about the WM-Z it should be easy for your undoubted goodself to put your mitts onto it and provide the information, you will be assisting my fellow europhiles with valuable information so that they can then make an informed choice on which WM-Z they wish to invest in, albeit a Euro, Japanese or US version... afterall value does come into your thinking as shown in one of your previous post 'not worth it' attest.
 
as iterated before we're not particularly concerned with a reviewers findings as that argument was pulled to pieces by other head-fi'ers... so convince us you're not one of these troll-types that are only out to bash the WM-Z, if you can't be of any genuine assistance feel free to carry on listening to your iPlod's.
 
May 30, 2012 at 7:01 PM Post #1,896 of 4,019
Quote:
Get to know what the output impedance is. Get to know the TF10 impedance curve.
Then check the frequency response graph from Markus Kraus RMAA of the Sony Z driving a TF10. Really, it's not rocket science.
You can as well email the folks of Goldenears and they will let you know about capping UE devices by raising the output impedance.

 
Don't bother explaining to someone that the moon is not shining on its own but merely reflecting lights off the sun.
 
May 30, 2012 at 8:34 PM Post #1,898 of 4,019
Quote:
ahaa see you got rid of the DX100... not good enough for your ears I take it because the graph doesn't comply or was there something else?.... what now an iPod?

 
The DX100 is by far the best sounding DAP I have heard so far.
 
I traded it away to upgrade my desktop rig since I do more serious listening when I am at home than when I am outdoor.
 
May 30, 2012 at 9:30 PM Post #1,899 of 4,019
Quote:
 
The DX100 is by far the best sounding DAP I have heard so far.
 
I traded it away to upgrade my desktop rig since I do more serious listening when I am at home than when I am outdoor.

 
I can understand that, shame in a way because I liked your input on the DX100 thread (I'm waiting on the next firmware update & seeing the outcome before committing).....
btw glad to see graphs were not a part of your thinking
wink_face.gif

 
May 30, 2012 at 9:58 PM Post #1,900 of 4,019
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Just for the record. The iPod Classic measured by Kraus is the fat 160Gb (As he told me via twitter when i asked).It's not the 7G.
 
The great thing about Kraus measurements is that he uses a balanced armature iem with wild impedance distribution across the frequency range.So it demands a low output impedance source.Thus you get a great idea of the output impedance of the player measured. An RMAA of a dynamic headphone won't tell much about that critical parameter. That's why he uses the TF10 for RMAA's (It does not have to do with electrical damping since armatures by their nature do not need much damping)
 
And there are other key areas to sound quality as distortion, noise floor and crosstalk. In these areas synergies are worth nothing. Nor any amount of equalizing.
 
This is a science. Uneducated approaches work worse (and are more expensive) than educated ones.
 
Just get the best measured device you can buy and then a headphone whose tonal balance you like. It's not complicated nor esoteric.
 
Unfortunately Sony caps the volume of European units by raising the output impedance (instead of going the firmware route). That's why Markus Kraus Z measurement looks terrible. And that's why it can not sound any good. And purcharsing an european unit of this thing is an utter waste of money. Plus a disrespect on the Sony end regarding Europen customers. No wonder why they get the financial results they get these days.
 
Could a car with 3 flat tires beat a working Ferrari? In Europe the Sony Z is the one with flat tires. And i don't need to hear the absence of highs in the signal to attest that this device is not worth it.

Thanks for the correction, I actually knew it was a 6G, just forgot, either way it didn't degrade my points. Dynamics have a more passive change to impedance resistance, some hardly change, the TF10's wild impedance changes (which are for the worse [note there can be good changes but there's few IEMs like this]) portrays the flaws the DAP might bring out. Same point, you can't compare Sonove's measurement's to Kraus'. 
 
That is a very good point to consider and quite a shame, there's some hope.... Now I know why the Nexus One also measured horribly despite being average on another test (though it wasn't as critical [32ohm dynamic driver load]), 
 

Okay, we get it, you take frequency charts much more seriously than real listening experience and hate the Walkman. Now, you can go start up your own hate thread and leave the fans here alone. 

I presented an objective measurement that clearly shows a flaw in the sound, is that bashing? It's an observation, something for the readers to consider, why ignore something like this it.  
Appreciation threads don't have to be doomed to just hype, it's suppose to be a thread were you get as much as information as you can about a product, that's how I treat them. Threads are suppose to be informative, no separation of each side, it's practical criticism.  It seems you take it into personal matters, there' an attachment to the product. I mean no harm and inside, I wish Sony will finally get a DAP right even though I'm not in the market for one and  I was hoping it would've been this one. There is still hope for the US/Jap versions, but it remains to be seen. 
 
Subjective listening comparisons are less universal than graphs, think about that. 
 
May 31, 2012 at 1:23 AM Post #1,901 of 4,019
So if I understand it correctly, this RMAA test was conducted on a EU "volume crippled" device?
Does that mean that the results on a non-EU (US/Japanese) device might be different?
If so, I am very curious about an RMAA test on such a device.
If anyone finds such a test of a non-EU Z series walkman, please share the link!

 
May 31, 2012 at 3:00 AM Post #1,904 of 4,019
Stop the fighting (if there still is) because I have a question.
 
Anyone opened the Z and looked what DAC chip is inside it? =)
 
May 31, 2012 at 3:12 AM Post #1,905 of 4,019
The UE version of the Sony Z has an outrageusly high output impedance. That's an objective truth.
 
I think mature an educated people can assess properly what i've told here.
 
Uneducated listeners are manufacturers dream :wink:
 

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