[Buddha]

Quote:

Originally posted by delenda est Sony Especially Buddha, who's gotten carried enough away so as to call my Grado SR60s, Sony V6s, and Senn 497s "second rate cans"! And this from a man who bought the Philips 550s...tch tch! And all that verbiage on mudslinging, innuendo and slithering, well, perhaps you should relax and have a Fosters, mate!

Hmmn... "carried away"... no ... quite restrained actually.
Im afraid your "seven cautionary thoughts" post has left me with a rather poor impression. If you actually had some experience with the 890s I would be interested in your opinion...but ...you dont... and have nothing meaningful to contribute.

Wisdom eh...

Heres some for free... Fosters is *****...In fact its so bad we have to send it overseas as noone in Oz would be seen dead drinking the stuff.

Fortunately we can purchase a slab of good Dutch pilsener cheaper than most domestic beers.

Hallelujah!

 

[srapps55]

I'm with delenda on this one Buddha. First of all, he has every good reason to doubt the sonic character of the Philips based on prior experience with their headphones. Second, it is pretty well known, at least in the US, that most Philips products are **** from an engineering and quality standpoint (and, as someone who did market research for Philips USA, I am very confident in making this statement). Third, if they are so great, why aren't they sold in the US, and why did Philips discontinute them altogether? All delenda was trying to point out is why risk spending over $100 on an unknown product that has to be shipped from Germany when there are plenty of good (and cheaper) options already available. In addition, the posts I've seen about the 890's have not been universal in their praise.

Yes, Fosters is ****, but, like for most consumer goods, we have plenty of options in the good ol' USA.

 

[Bolivar]

WOW! Sure looks like I stepped into the lions den on this one.
Obviously the phones are not run in enough to give a final review, but one things for sure. It's going to pain me to put the Grados back on. There is absolutely no comparison between the SR-60's and the 890's.
To give you a rough idea of the difference. It was like going from box speakers to Magnepans.
I still plan on giving a full review. There are plenty of things to point out.
Concerning ordering from Germany and the money issue.
Meier-Audio came highly recommended with a track record of taking care of business, which he\they did for me.
It's my money, and I'm the kind of person that takes personal accountability for hitting the send button. So I knew there was some "risk" about possibly getting a damaged and or defective product due to the long shipping.
BUT, once again I myself hit the send button, not anyone here or at Meier.
One of the other things that intruged me about the 890's was the fact that there not really available to us in the US. So why not give them a try.
Give me a few more days and I'll post the review.

One things for sure, it's great that you all have strong opinions. That always makes for good reading.

 

[RMSzero]

Quote:

First of all

Oh lord, not again.
I'd really like to go through your post point by point and exlain why you have none, but it's been done to death in the thread you are referring to, and in case you've forgotten, delenda had few supporters. However, I can't resist just one.

Quote:

All delenda was trying to point out is why risk spending over $100 on an unknown product that has to be shipped from Germany when there are plenty of good (and cheaper) options already available.

Because for $100 I got a well packed double-boxed package including headphones that weren't harmed in the slightest in shipping. These headphones were amazingly comfortable, open, with a one sided high-quality detachable cable, and came with a stand. Ignoring completely the sound quality, what else has these features that is cheaper? Nothing. It fit my needs perfectly and I'm glad I bought it -- you and he didn't buy it, have never seen it, and haven't heard it, so I really don't see what good it does for you to comment. You and delenda were very eager to point out that there are other cheaper possibilities, but I have yet to see you suggest what any of them are, and I still don't believe your suggestions have any merit since, again, you haven't tried the headphones.

 

[Mumrik]

Quote:

Originally posted by srapps55 Third, if they are so great, why aren't they sold in the US, and why did Philips discontinute them altogether?

Let's not do this again, this is not what Bolivar's thread is about, but I'll do a quick comment on the above...

1) How many of the great AT headphones do you see sold in the US? almost none...

2) I don't think their discontinueation was ever confirmed... It's irrellevant anyway, sound quality is judged by those who listen...



Let's put this baby back on track before a moderator comes by waving his finger

Bolivar, I'm very glad to hear that you enjoy them so much, on behalf of the young but growing Team Philips I welcome and congratulate you on your purchase

 

[delenda est Sony]

Uh-oh!

Things were just sort of mellowing... Than Buddha/Kali stepped in to dispense some discord and harshness.

Anyway, not to rehash the old post, but I thought I had a few valid points, though Team Philips came up with fine rebuttals at the time. My QC experience with Philips was not a golden one, but that is anecdotal evidence which I will disregard in light of the praise lavished on the 890s (which certainly look well made!). I am in neutral to favorable position ideologically on the 890s and would happily buy them locally if possible and would fairly assess them. I enjoyed the lively discussion of my subject at the time and except for some nastiness from Buddha and a few others, I thought the post generated worthwhile commentary.

As Bolivar points out, it was his money and his decision and things worked out well for him, and the reputation of Meier Audio is beyond reproach as many forum members testified. The reason why I personally would not buy mail order on the 890s is the fact that I might not like them or might have a problem with them and long distance international returns might be a hassle. Of course there is every chance that the phones would work fine and that I would love them, but I am just being cautious.

Buddha, I am sorry that I stand judged forever on the basis of one post that offended you. I've tried to mend fences, but there is not much to be done if you're in Mad Max mode. I have expatriate Aussie friends here in NY (though _they_ all seem to have a sense of humour!) and I am well aware of the execrable quality of Foster's as well as it's poor reputation among enlightened Australians. Which is why I suggested that _you_ should have some.

Thanks, Srapps for your support, but as RMS points out, many took issue with my post, so we are in the minority on this one! Let's follow Mumriks lead and move towards friendly informed discussion if we can on this. Bolivar seems unintimidated by all the fuss and I look forward to reading his review. (Though things are not looking up for the poor SR60s!

) And I myself hope to be able to eventually buy some 890s one day soon.

RMS, I thought the list of "allegedly good phones for less than $100" was fairly well known, but to be explicit there's the Grado SR60 & 80, the Sennheiser 495 & 497, the Sony V6, the ETY ER6s ($12 more than the 890s), and maybe even the Beyer 231s and AKG 301s. Maybe some others too.

Whew! That was thirsty work---time for a Foster's....NOT!!!

 

[srapps55]

Delenda, I don't care about being in the minority, because being in the majority does not mean you're right.

To help translate my last post, the reason I typed it was to point out that Buddha should not criticize Delenda about his original "Reasons" post on the 890's. I think if you re-read my post, you will see that.

Regardless of how many people here think the 890 is the cats meow, I will NEVER buy it for the simple fact it says Philips. I'm sure there are many other people who feel the same way, because Philips has attached their name to too many substandard products. My god, when I did work for the Philips USA marketing people, they used to make fun of their OWN products and how bad they were. And the guy I did the work for worked at GM for 19 years before coming to Philips, so that should tell you something.

 

[Blighty]

Quote:

Actually, Philips guys, if the 890s popped up in the local Virgin Mega tomorrow at $105, I'd buy em in a flash. I like the design, have heard lots of great things about them, and would love a chance to be more closely involved in The Great Headphone Controversy Of Our Day. Also, I am not discounting the great loyalty that these cans have inspired in all of you guys. There must be something to them!

Are we reading the same thread?

Delenda has expressed interest in making the leap and I would encourage him to do so as these headphones are surely worth the $105USD.

Quote:

call my Grado SR60s, Sony V6s, and Senn 497s "second rate cans"!

I think he meant "entry-level" hi-fi headphones

BTW, who is making the Team Philips HP890 avatar?

 

[delenda est Sony]

Blighty, I am nothing if not open minded!

My objection was never really to these cans; it was the issue of buying long distance and then later the undue aggressiveness on the part of some Philips proponents in addressing any critique of the 890s. Your review and many others make these cans sound great...

Speaking of undue aggressiveness, the Angry Buddha did say:

"Slither back to that place from whence you came... and take your Codys {sic} with you... (they'll be right at home with the rest of the second rate cans in your collection)"

Fairly unequivocal eh??

Hey, post 100! Where's my goldfish?!?

 

[joeyliao]

just to point out a price correction for the HP890 in Australia. I am having a friend of mine pick me up a pair. they retail for about 150AUD which is closer to 75$USD a pair, not 60.

On the topic of Philips' reputation in the US. I agree, it is really bad. but having lived outside the US for a while, I can definitely vouch for the higher quality of their products (and design) outside of the US market.

I think most foreign consumer products companies treat the US market as an unsophisticated market and sell goods there accordingly (just an observation).

Many companies, esp the japanese, keep the best models for themselves. Look at AT and all the high end wood and "ART' headphones. Sony sells maybe 1 out of its 15 high end portable cd players in the US. Minidisc players - same deal (although i think it is because Sony USA didnt market them properly - thus lack of demand)

Cars, same thing...TV's... mobile phones...

So maybe Philips is doing the same. They probably think the HP890 will not do well in the US and are not bothering to spend the cash to launch the product in the US.

That is a business decision they have taken and US consumers are suffering for it. I think many companies (rightly or wrongly) believe that Americans dont appreciate good design. Therefore they sell cheap throwaway stuff and concentrate on maintaining margins on those products. remember, it takes alot of commitment (and money) to build and maintain a high end brand.

 

[Blighty]

Quote:

Originally posted by srapps55 Regardless of how many people here think the 890 is the cats meow, I will NEVER buy it for the simple fact it says Philips.

There is nothing wrong about being in the minority. I respect your logic and it is generally true that cheap brand names produce cheap products. I mean, the HP890 can be found in the Czech Republic for ~37USD and in India for ~$55USD. However, being in the minority due to sheer ignorance when there is evidence to support contrary opinion is another matter

I am in perfect agreement about the Philips brand not being synonymous with quality in the North american market. The HP890 was purchased solely upon the recommendation of Dr. Meier, HiFiChoiceUK, and another Australian who briefly reviewed them in December 2001. Although I am a skeptic at heart, I still expected them to perform a single role well. I bought them as much for their aesthetics as any thing else but lucked out in that they far exceeded my expectations in all areas. The same is true of the Koss KSC-35. They are unbeatable for earphones under $50 and yet customers have found them for as little as $10USD locally. It does not change either cans' performance value despite their prices or brand names. I postulate that these are exceptions to the rule in terms of brand name and performance. Perhaps one day Bose will make some of the best sounding loudspeakers but I guess we will never know if we do not approach audio with an open mind.

[ok, I'm exaggerating a bit about the bose thing but the point is still valid

]

 

[Buddha]

In light of Blightys outstanding review I believe a magnanimous gesture is in order...

On behalf of Team Philips I declare a truce... and all detractors shall be spared their miserable lives. Furthermore, and in the interest of international relations, my previous posts have been edited to reflect a more compassionate viewpoint.

Beers all round!

Huzzah!

 

[srapps55]

I would agree that we do not always get the best stuff here in the USA, but its not because we are "unsophisticated". Americans are very value conscious, and too often value equates to price. Sony realizes (sometimes) that products that sell well in Japan have no chance of selling in the US because customers question their value. Why pay $200 for a PCDP when you can get one for $60. Don't they basically do the same thing?

These issues became clear when I worked for Volkswagen of America. In our little group, we had people from Germany, Britain, Mexico, Hong Kong, Canada, and Sweden (and the US, of course). One thing they all said, though, is that the US market was the hardest to satisfy. Simply put, they had more options to choose from, and, as my boss eloquently stated, "Americans demand filet mignon, but they want to pay for hamburger."

 

[Blighty]

Originally posted by Buddha
In light of Blightys outstanding review I believe a magnanimous gesture is in order...

On behalf of Team Philips I declare a truce... and all detractors shall be spared their miserable lives. Furthermore, and in the interest of international relations, my previous posts have been edited to reflect a more compassionate viewpoint.

Beers all round!
[size=medium]Great idea! But Fosters only for the disbelievers

[/size]

 

[delenda est Sony]

yay! Peace, good cheer and understanding breaks out spontaneously!

Now if only the UN worked so well!

Peace and goodwill to all and to all a good night...

And could we at least get the Foster's with a chaser?