[mrslysly]

 

 

And I answered - Vali2. That has a tube.
 
 

I did actually. I'll quote myself below.
 
 

 

Now I'll recap.

 

You asked whether SS or tube, so I started off by explaining the differences between what tubes amp you can get at that price range, which is typically OTL, and SS, and then there's a hybrid design. I then explained the problems with OTL tube amps vs transformer couple tube amps and SS and hybrid amps.

 

And then I said go with hybrid or solid state, I went with Schiit Vali2. Which I later explained as being pushed towards the Vali2 because you started out by asking about tubes. By that I meant that since you're interested in tube sound anyway, I went with the hybrid that gets you half of what a tube does that people like, without the problems of cheap or expensive tube amps, which I previously explained in that post by myself that I just quoted and recapped, and the succeeding post that I just now rephrased.

I guess it came down to a difference in interpretation.  I didn't imply I wanted to go with tubes.  Which is why I found it confusing you went with the Vali for the sole reason of "I asked about tubes.".   I didn't ask specifically about just tubes.  I don't see how my question infers I want only tube sound either.  If you had used the justification of "the Vali has the option of changing tubes or using a LISST to become a SS amp, which gives you the most customization of using a wide mix of headphones.", then I wouldn't be confused about your answer.
 
Bear in mind I do not understand a lot of electrical engineering concepts, nor terms.  I can understand the basics, but thats as far as my knowledge goes for now.  I tried to follow all of your explanations of the hybrid tube amp, but some areas were fuzzy as I wasn't sure what you were referencing all the time.  Seemed like it jumped around more than I could follow.  Either way, good info.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

I guess it came down to a difference in interpretation.  I didn't imply I wanted to go with tubes.  Which is why I found it confusing you went with the Vali for the sole reason of "I asked about tubes.".   I didn't ask specifically about just tubes.  I don't see how my question infers I want only tube sound either.  If you had used the justification of "the Vali has the option of changing tubes or using a LISST to become a SS amp, which gives you the most customization of using a wide mix of headphones.", then I wouldn't be confused about your answer.

 

Again, like I said previously, my point was that tendency for people who ask about tubes are curious about tubes more than they are about solid state, regardless of whether the question is "which tube amp?" or "tube or SS?" as people tend to gravitate towards tubes considering a number of things, some of which I then discussed in that initial post. 

 

Now, again, you were asking "tube or SS." I started out discussing what it is you are getting into to begin with, or in other words  lay of the lan, so I started with explaining that at lower price points you will only get three kinds of amps: OTL tube amps, SS, and hybrid. I explained that OTL amps have a problem wiht low impedance low sensitiivity loads, then between SS and hybrid, the driving capabilities can be comparable (depends on which are being compared of course) since they can potentially use a similar enough SS output stage. 

 

What I didn't explain was one thing I assumed you might have already read about, which is what I assume to be the reason you're asking about tubes to begin with: the kind of sound on the Schiit Valhalla product blurb. I explicitly discussed that the driving capabilty of the Magni2 and Vali2 are comparable, but went with the Vali2 since, under the assumption that you're going after the sound in the Valhalla2 product blurb more than the kinds of feedback some people have on, say, the Magni2 and O2 amplifiers, the Vali2 has a tube to put it somewhere between a tube amp and an SS amp, which is typically why hybrids are around.

 

[mrslysly]

 

 

Again, like I said previously, my point was that tendency for people who ask about tubes are curious about tubes more than they are about solid state, regardless of whether the question is "which tube amp?" or "tube or SS?" as people tend to gravitate towards tubes considering a number of things, some of which I then discussed in that initial post. 

 

Now, again, you were asking "tube or SS." I started out discussing what it is you are getting into to begin with, or in other words  lay of the lan, so I started with explaining that at lower price points you will only get three kinds of amps: OTL tube amps, SS, and hybrid. I explained that OTL amps have a problem wiht low impedance low sensitiivity loads, then between SS and hybrid, the driving capabilities can be comparable (depends on which are being compared of course) since they can potentially use a similar enough SS output stage. 

 

What I didn't explain was one thing I assumed you might have already read about, which is what I assume to be the reason you're asking about tubes to begin with: the kind of sound on the Schiit Valhalla product blurb. I explicitly discussed that the driving capabilty of the Magni2 and Vali2 are comparable, but went with the Vali2 since, under the assumption that you're going after the sound in the Valhalla2 product blurb more than the kinds of feedback some people have on, say, the Magni2 and O2 amplifiers, the Vali2 has a tube to put it somewhere between a tube amp and an SS amp, which is typically why hybrids are around.

I did look at the Vali2 and it just says you can pick your sound by switching out tubes.   As I'm still extremely new to this, that really means very little to me.  I don't know what tubes do for sound.  Up, down, left, right, A, B, start, select, north, or green.  I understand that they can change how it sounds, so you can pair a tube with a particular headphone to get an EQ effect basically.  But not much beyond that.  At this point I'm looking to still keep things simple.  Having to deal with tubes, and then storing them, and spending a lot of time finding tubes that I like, is most likely more than I want to dedicate myself to, for now.
 
I will have to do a lot more research before upgrading.     Why does audio equipment have to be so complicated?!!

 

[ProtegeManiac]

 
I did look at the Vali2 and it just says you can pick your sound by switching out tubes.   As I'm still extremely new to this, that really means very little to me.  I don't know what tubes do for sound.  Up, down, left, right, A, B, start, select, north, or green.  I understand that they can change how it sounds, so you can pair a tube with a particular headphone to get an EQ effect basically.  But not much beyond that.  At this point I'm looking to still keep things simple.  Having to deal with tubes, and then storing them, and spending a lot of time finding tubes that I like, is most likely more than I want to dedicate myself to, for now.

 

That's why I pointed out the blurb on the Valhalla2. If you can imagine how Norah Jones can sound like in a "smoky jazz bar," a tube will enhance that, especially if you compare it to a solid state amp that, when pushed, sounds harsh and can make a headphone with a treble peak sound even worse. Note that that does not apply to all solid state amps.

 

That said, when I had the Little Dot MkII, Norah Jones sounds like she needs to snort chicken soup to clear her sinus. If you can't imagine how that sounds like, sing. Then, pinch your nose, and sing again, recording both times on your phone and then listening to it again with earphones. This does have a tendency to be overdone by some amps, but again, it isn't necessarily true for all tube amps.

 

That said, since now I get what I thought you already have an idea about from reading, here's another point about these. As much as I would err on an accurate solid state amp that doesn't roll off the treble, or at least not on the amplifier output stage (hence the tube input or gain stage rather than an SS amp deliberately doing it through some other means), chances are the cymbals can sound harsh. This is partly due to recording quality, and partly due to the inherent physics when listening on headphones.

 

On speakers, even those that have a smooth response can still have harsh treble depending on how the sound bounces around in your room. On a headphone system each ear only hears the driver next to it, losing imaging cues, so anything panned hard left or right like cymbals will totally lose all the cross-channel information of the same sound, pushing them farther to the flanks and sometimes far forward closer to you, making it seem like the cymbals are practically just outside your ears. A hybrid amp can roll off the treble gently enough to affect that, although not as well as a targeted EQ cut where the peak really is and can be set to reduce it even more, whereas if you totally relied on the tube stage to roll off the treble, you practically end up with Norah Jones singing while she has a cold.
 
 

 
Why does audio equipment have to be so complicated?!!

 

Because the technology isn't perfect considering how many considerations have to be taken into account. Headphone imepdance can vary from 8ohms which needs current to 600ohms which needs voltage (and that doesn't even include electrostats). That's why some solid state amps can pour a heck of a lot of power into 32ohms but then only produce a tenth of that into 300ohms if you control for distortion and noise levels. Note that better amps nowadays can pour a lot more than that, like, roughly 1/4 of the 32ohm output on average. Still, some, like OTL amps, came up primarily to reduce the costs of a transformer coupled amp (cost of quality transformers, the much larger chassis, the number of tubes, the weight and size of the amp that affects manufacturing and shipping, etc), were designed to just deliver voltage and practically to heck with current and low output impedance, which is why they pour more power at 300ohms than at 32ohms.

 

Now, there is also the problem of how some lower impedance headphones have a lower sensitivity, while the higher impedance headphones need voltage. That generally means that you can more easily get away with having a low impedance and a high impedance headphone not having issues with a good solid state output stage (that includes hybrid amps with a tube gain stage) than having an OTL amp that will drive high impedance headphones well but have trouble with low impedance loads (and worse if it it also has lower efficiency).

 

On top of that headphones (nor speakers) technology hasn't yet produced an absolutely flat response design, so picking any headphone or speaker boils down to "what compromises I can live with."