[mrslysly]

Hello all,
 
  New member and I'm suppose to create a new thread.  So here it is. 
 
I picked up a Schitt Audio Fulla 2 and found it pairs great with AKG 7xx, but I'm still looking to get a HD600 or HD650.  Is that going to be enough power?  I've done some research about the voltage vs amperage and tubes vs solid state and want to make sure the amp is strong enough to drive the Senn's.   I've read the HD650 is a very power hungry beast to sound good.

 

[serman005]

  Hello all,
 
  New member and I'm suppose to create a new thread.  So here it is. 
 
I picked up a Schitt Audio Fulla 2 and found it pairs great with AKG 7xx, but I'm still looking to get a HD600 or HD650.  Is that going to be enough power?  I've done some research about the voltage vs amperage and tubes vs solid state and want to make sure the amp is strong enough to drive the Senn's.   I've read the HD650 is a very power hungry beast to sound good.

My HD600 is, indeed, fairly power-hungry. Will your Fulla 2 drive a 600/650? Yes, it will, but whether it does so optimally or not is another matter. You can do some calculations to illustrate all this, but what matters to me is how it sounds. Where I notice it most when an amp is inadequate is mostly on the low end--bass quality and quantity. Adequate power controls the low end on my 600 better. That has been my experience, anyhow. Your Fulla 2 may work great for your 600/650. The best way to find out is to plug it in and listen. If it sounds good to you, you have enough power. If it doesn't, you may need more power.  ---)

 

[mrslysly]

  My HD600 is, indeed, fairly power-hungry. Will your Fulla 2 drive a 600/650? Yes, it will, but whether it does so optimally or not is another matter. You can do some calculations to illustrate all this, but what matters to me is how it sounds. Where I notice it most when an amp is inadequate is mostly on the low end--bass quality and quantity. Adequate power controls the low end on my 600 better. That has been my experience, anyhow. Your Fulla 2 may work great for your 600/650. The best way to find out is to plug it in and listen. If it sounds good to you, you have enough power. If it doesn't, you may need more power.  ---)

But how do you know if its good?  Good is subjective based only on past experience.   What may sound good right now may sound like crap after using a better quality product.  In this case an amp.   So I may think it sounds good now, but is it truely?

 

[serman005]

 
But how do you know if its good?  Good is subjective based only on past experience.   What may sound good right now may sound like crap after using a better quality product.  In this case an amp.   So I may think it sounds good now, but is it truely?

As you point out, 'good' is a totally subjective moniker. I guess the way to tell if it's 'good' or not is if it sounds pleasing to you.  You are the one that matters. Not any of us. Of course, you can always I suppose buy a more powerful amplifier and try it out, then return it if it isn't making a difference for you. You can do this with amazon rather easily. Great returns policy.

 

[serman005]

One more word on power. For context. The Fulla 2 does a maximum of 40 mW into a 300 ohm load. The Magni 2, on the other hand, delivers a maximum of 260 mW into a 300 ohm load. So, there is a more than six-fold power difference between the Fulla and the Magni 2. That is substantial. Whether it matters to you sonically is, of course, another matter.

 

[Music freak]

I have the original Fulla. it also puts 40mw into 300 ohms. well, It can drive the HD 650s, but sounds thin and a bit bright. Mids dont sound as lush as they should. Bass impact is low and there is some distortion in the treble. Overall I dont like the sound of the 650s driven by the fulla.

 

[mrslysly]

Looks like I need a more powerful amp.  Do I go solid state or tube? 
 
Anyone give some feedback on amps they found that paired well with the HD650?  Also comment on the color and characteristic of sound you like.  Me with my sensitivity to higher frequencies, tend to like to have a full bass experience.  I'm not a pure basshead, but that music does flow thru my playlists.  I also enjoy classical music from the calm melodies to the energetic and emotion evoking dramas.

 

[littlewangja]

Hello!  New member here!
 
I am just getting into the Hi-Fi listening!!!
 
Currently using the OPPO PM-2 with Dragonfly and I LOVE IT!
 
Question, I am wanting to buy Sennheiser HD650 in the near future, and wanted to buy WooAudio WA7 and try the tubes.  Mostly I listen to the Classic/Jazz Norah Jones, John Coltrane, Andrea Bocelli...
 
Any recommendations?  ^^
 
Thanks in advance!!!

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  Looks like I need a more powerful amp.  Do I go solid state or tube? 
 
Anyone give some feedback on amps they found that paired well with the HD650?  Also comment on the color and characteristic of sound you like.  Me with my sensitivity to higher frequencies, tend to like to have a full bass experience.  I'm not a pure basshead, but that music does flow thru my playlists.  I also enjoy classical music from the calm melodies to the energetic and emotion evoking dramas.

 

Depends on how much you can spend. OTL tube amplifiers deliver a lot of voltage to high impedance cans so they have all the verve and energy they can use for a relatively low price vs some other current-biased designs (doens't mean they can't deliver a lot of voltage, or that your HD6x0 needs 30v max output), but the problem is that OTL amps have really poor current performance and have high output impedance. Barring how some can make Grados sound a little thicker (and mostly because the high efficiency means they don't need a lot of power either), these aren't the best choice of amplifier if you don't plan on keeping only high impedance headphones plus some Grados on the side at most.

 

Transformer coupled tube amps, like some Single Ended Push Pull designs, are huge, and the price of the transformers plus packaging and shipping all add up. 

 

Your best bet for an all around amp for not a lot of money are SS or hybrid amps. I'd go with the Schiit Vali2.

 

[mrslysly]

 

 

Depends on how much you can spend. OTL tube amplifiers deliver a lot of voltage to high impedance cans so they have all the verve and energy they can use for a relatively low price vs some other current-biased designs (doens't mean they can't deliver a lot of voltage, or that your HD6x0 needs 30v max output), but the problem is that OTL amps have really poor current performance and have high output impedance. Barring how some can make Grados sound a little thicker (and mostly because the high efficiency means they don't need a lot of power either), these aren't the best choice of amplifier if you don't plan on keeping only high impedance headphones plus some Grados on the side at most.

 

Transformer coupled tube amps, like some Single Ended Push Pull designs, are huge, and the price of the transformers plus packaging and shipping all add up. 

 

Your best bet for an all around amp for not a lot of money are SS or hybrid amps. I'd go with the Schiit Vali2.

May I ask why the Vali 2 over the Modi 2 Uber?  The Modi 2 Uber has a much lower output impedance and a higher output wattage.   I do understand wattage can be misleading as 2V x 2A = 4watts the same as 0.8V x 5A = 4 watts.   Both amps would run really close in price for me to consider the price negligible in my consideration.   Is a higher/more consistent voltage output more desirable than amperage?  Or does that largely vary by the driver type in the headphones?  There are so many factors involved that it makes it difficult to wrap my brain around it all and make sense of it.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

 
May I ask why the Vali 2 over the Modi 2 Uber?  The Modi 2 Uber has a much lower output impedance and a higher output wattage.   I do understand wattage can be misleading as 2V x 2A = 4watts the same as 0.8V x 5A = 4 watts.   Both amps would run really close in price for me to consider the price negligible in my consideration.   Is a higher/more consistent voltage output more desirable than amperage?  Or does that largely vary by the driver type in the headphones?  There are so many factors involved that it makes it difficult to wrap my brain around it all and make sense of it.

 

I'm not sure what this is for...the Modi2 is a DAC. It's not a Vali2 vs Modi2, since they perform very different functions, and are supposed to work together. Also while the Modi2 has a 2v line output it's not typically measured in amperage much less watts. It's a line signal from what technically is part of the source unit (ie traditionally a "source is a single unit, ie, the CDP; a DAC is basically half of it, with the CD transport replaced by a smartphone or larger computer), not something designed to drive transducers like headphones or speakers. 

 

Are you confusing the Modi2 with the Magni2 Uber? If the comparison is between the Magni2 and Vali2, it's pretty much a toss up output power is comparable to the regular Magni and higher THD figures of the Vali2 is due more to the tube gain stage than the discrete SS output stage distorting. At least, apart from the higher output impedance. Still, even on high gain, the ratio of output impedance to load impedance that is generally regarded to be safe enough that you don't lose damping factor (ie you get an EQ effect when using some headphones) is 1:8. At 6ohms output impedance x 8, the 62ohm nominal impedance of the K7XX is still safe. If you plan on getting a headphone with lower impedance as well as lower sensitivity then that would be a problem, otherwise, the tube stage can have a subjective effect that you might prefer. 

 

Also those wattage figures apply more to some other solid state or hybrid amp where one is too highly biased for current output that it can't deliver a lot of voltage vs one that's more balanced, which results in drastically lower wattage output at 300ohms than the other amp, given the same THD and noise levels. Again the output figures of the Vali2 and regular Magni2 are comparable enough.

 
In any case, while ultimately I'd consider that a toss up, the thing is you asked about tubes, so I went with the Vali2.

 

[mrslysly]

 

 

I'm not sure what this is for...the Modi2 is a DAC. It's not a Vali2 vs Modi2, since they perform very different functions, and are supposed to work together. Also while the Modi2 has a 2v line output it's not typically measured in amperage much less watts. It's a line signal from what technically is part of the source unit (ie traditionally a "source is a single unit, ie, the CDP; a DAC is basically half of it, with the CD transport replaced by a smartphone or larger computer), not something designed to drive transducers like headphones or speakers. 

 

Are you confusing the Modi2 with the Magni2 Uber? If the comparison is between the Magni2 and Vali2, it's pretty much a toss up output power is comparable to the regular Magni and higher THD figures of the Vali2 is due more to the tube gain stage than the discrete SS output stage distorting. At least, apart from the higher output impedance. Still, even on high gain, the ratio of output impedance to load impedance that is generally regarded to be safe enough that you don't lose damping factor (ie you get an EQ effect when using some headphones) is 1:8. At 6ohms output impedance x 8, the 62ohm nominal impedance of the K7XX is still safe. If you plan on getting a headphone with lower impedance as well as lower sensitivity then that would be a problem, otherwise, the tube stage can have a subjective effect that you might prefer. 

 

Also those wattage figures apply more to some other solid state or hybrid amp where one is too highly biased for current output that it can't deliver a lot of voltage vs one that's more balanced, which results in drastically lower wattage output at 300ohms than the other amp, given the same THD and noise levels. Again the output figures of the Vali2 and regular Magni2 are comparable enough.

 
In any case, while ultimately I'd consider that a toss up, the thing is you asked about tubes, so I went with the Vali2.

Yes I did confuse the Modi and the Magni.  I was not the one who asked about tubes.  That was the other guy posting in this thread.  It has become a 3 way conversation.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  I was not the one who asked about tubes.  That was the other guy posting in this thread.  It has become a 3 way conversation.

 
?

 

[mrslysly]

   
?

I asked which direction to go, tubes or SS.  You never gave any reason why you picked the Vali over the Magni besides saying I asked about tubes.  The other person who posted specifically asked about a tube amp.  I was confused why you just went with Vali only.  Do not get me wrong, I appreciate the info on the Magni and Vali, but still curious if there is a reason for choosing the Vali other than I asked about tubes.   In the end I would like to have the equipment give me as many options for future expansion and exploration as possible.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

I asked which direction to go, tubes or SS.

 

And I answered - Vali2. That has a tube.
 
 

  I asked which direction to go, tubes or SS.  You never gave any reason why you picked the Vali over the Magni besides saying I asked about tubes.  The other person who posted specifically asked about a tube amp.  I was confused why you just went with Vali only.  Do not get me wrong, I appreciate the info on the Magni and Vali, but still curious if there is a reason for choosing the Vali other than I asked about tubes.   In the end I would like to have the equipment give me as many options for future expansion and exploration as possible.

 

I did actually. I'll quote myself below.
 

Originally Posted by ProtegeManiac /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 

 

Depends on how much you can spend. OTL tube amplifiers deliver a lot of voltage to high impedance cans so they have all the verve and energy they can use for a relatively low price vs some other current-biased designs (doens't mean they can't deliver a lot of voltage, or that your HD6x0 needs 30v max output), but the problem is that OTL amps have really poor current performance and have high output impedance. Barring how some can make Grados sound a little thicker (and mostly because the high efficiency means they don't need a lot of power either), these aren't the best choice of amplifier if you don't plan on keeping only high impedance headphones plus some Grados on the side at most.

 

Transformer coupled tube amps, like some Single Ended Push Pull designs, are huge, and the price of the transformers plus packaging and shipping all add up. 

 

Your best bet for an all around amp for not a lot of money are SS or hybrid amps. I'd go with the Schiit Vali2.
 

 

 

Now I'll recap.

 

You asked whether SS or tube, so I started off by explaining the differences between what tubes amp you can get at that price range, which is typically OTL, and SS, and then there's a hybrid design. I then explained the problems with OTL tube amps vs transformer couple tube amps and SS and hybrid amps.

 

And then I said go with hybrid or solid state, I went with Schiit Vali2. Which I later explained as being pushed towards the Vali2 because you started out by asking about tubes. By that I meant that since you're interested in tube sound anyway, I went with the hybrid that gets you half of what a tube does that people like, without the problems of cheap or expensive tube amps, which I previously explained in that post by myself that I just quoted and recapped, and the succeeding post that I just now rephrased.