[manbear]

The Beyerdynamic pros are cheaper than the premiums, and the other difference is that they have older-style housings on the driver. The premiums also come in a wider range of impedances. You can find comparisons of the different versions, but it seems like the sound differences are much less than the price differences. 

I'm not going to try to spend your money, but the M50s and V6s are in a tier below the cans I mentioned before. I have owned the V6s, and they just paled in comparison to the DT-990 Pro that I owned and the Q701 and HE-400 I currently have. The treble on the V6s is pretty harsh, and they don't have much of a soundstage. Also less bass extension. If the difference between the Q701 and the HE-400 is a 1, the difference between the V6 and the Q701 is at least a 5. I'm making these numbers up, but you get the idea. I haven't heard the M50, but I've seen numerous people say that the DT770 Pro is a class above them. 

I like the HE-400 a lot and could tell you more about them if you're interested. 

 

[Edward777]

  The Beyerdynamic pros are cheaper than the premiums, and the other difference is that they have older-style housings on the driver. The premiums also come in a wider range of impedances. You can find comparisons of the different versions, but it seems like the sound differences are much less than the price differences. 

I'm not going to try to spend your money, but the M50s and V6s are in a tier below the cans I mentioned before. I have owned the V6s, and they just paled in comparison to the DT-990 Pro that I owned and the Q701 and HE-400 I currently have. The treble on the V6s is pretty harsh, and they don't have much of a soundstage. Also less bass extension. If the difference between the Q701 and the HE-400 is a 1, the difference between the V6 and the Q701 is at least a 5. I'm making these numbers up, but you get the idea. I haven't heard the M50, but I've seen numerous people say that the DT770 Pro is a class above them. 

I like the HE-400 a lot and could tell you more about them if you're interested. 

From your own experience, would you recommend the HE-400s over the other ones you listed?  I'm interested in them definitely.  

 

[manbear]

Yes, I would recommend them. The HE-400 have been my favorite headphones so far. Here is a review that I've posted elsewhere comparing the Q701 and the HE-400. Maybe the Q701 would be preferable for someone who listens to mostly classical or other large-scale acoustic music, but the HE-400 takes the cake for other genres. Also, I found that the DT990 and HE-400 have a similar overall flavor, but the HE-400 is just better in the technicalities. 
 

I prefer the HE-400. The powerful bass, clear separation and layering, and sense of speed and physical texture are the qualities that stand out to me. The Q701 does have the upper hand in a few areas though -- its soundstage is bigger, it has a more natural tone in the midrange, and the treble is smoother.

Bass -- So much better on the HE-400. It goes just as deep, if not deeper, hits much harder, and is faster. Even though it's faster, it's not necessarily "tighter," since the HE-400 has more midbass. I don't find the midbass bloated though. Overall, the bass has much more impact and more of a physical texture. On the Q701, I hear the bass more than feel it. This is the area with the biggest difference between the two.   

Midrange -- More recessed on the HE-400 compared to the Q701, but it has a fast, tactile edge that really sounds nice on distorted guiters and synths. More crunch and snap. The Q701 does a better job reproducing acoustic tones.

Highs -- Maybe not as extended as the Q701. The HE-400 are less bright overall, but there is a peak in the treble that gives it some sparkle (or fatigue, depending on how much you like highs). I thought the highs on the Q701 were smoother, but also more emphasized.

Soundstage/ Imaging -- The HE-400 have a smaller soundstage, but not by a large amount. I wouldn't call it small, just not huge like the Q701. However, the imaging is significantly better and more precise. I found the Q701s emphasized width but could also sound too diffuse (all the sounds are kind of big and don't have a specific enough location). The HE-400 are more focused and 3D. You are closer to the music and the center image is denser. The HE-400 have more layering, whereas sounds on the Q701 all seem to becoming from about the same distance away.

Detail -- A bit more detail through the HE-400. The Q701, with their brighter sound, can make small details louder and more obvious, but the HE-400 reveals more in the end. You have to listen more closely though. It's like the Q701 is a big bright HDTV and the HE-400 is an 8x10 photographic print. Details have more pop on the TV, but if you look closely, the print actually shows more information and has more resolution. Also worth noting that the HE-400 are less forgiving of poor recordings. 

Overall, the HE-400 have more of a "v-shaped" signature, with a focused and precise soundstage that's moderately smaller. The imaging is  much more defined. The HE-400 have a lot more midbass and a denser, thicker sound. Somewhat paradoxically, though, the HE-400 is also faster and more resolving. Sounds snap in and out of a nice, black background, and there is a tactile and precisely textured weight to the bass and midrange.

The Q701 has more of a flat and neutral sound. While the subbass extends very deep, there isn't quite enough body and impact in the midbass IMO. The transition from midrange to treble is more even on the Q701, and the highs are a little less fatiguing. They sound more balanced than the HE-400, but less engaging. The HE-400 have a slight coloration in the mids that makes acoustic instruments and voices sound just slightly less natural than the Q701 (though you wouldn't notice after you get used to it). 

 

[rubinstein]

an upgrade to HE 400 from M 50. You will be very happy for choosing HE 400. Make sure that you are getting rev 2 (white grill ones), if you are gonna buy used HE 400.
I bought HE 400 after a month of listening to K 240 mk II. I do not listen to K 240 mk ii much now a days. HE 400 would get benefits from a budget dac/amp like E10 or E17. This is not an ideal combination. but if you are on a tight budget, this would workout

 

[Edward777]

I am willing to pay a little extra to get the HE-400 an "ideal amp," instead of just a "budget amp," so you guys can post your best picks for that.  I also might get the Sennheiser HD600, so what would be a good desktop amp for that?
 
By the way, as I stated earlier in the thread, I'm listening to my music out of a portable CD player (a Sony, with a picture of it in the OP, although I am not sure of the exact type unless I go home and check).  Do you think that can connect to a desktop amp, or will I need to get a portable amp?  If it severely limits the kind of amp I would get, I could always plug a desktop amp into my PS3/Xbox 360/home receiver and listen to music off there, right?

 

[rubinstein]

If you do not portable amp, go for magni to use with cd player.
 
if you want a dac/amp for connecting to laptop, you could also consider getting audio gd 15.32, it is a dac/amp combo.

 

[Edward777]

  If you do not portable amp, go for magni to use with cd player.
 
if you want a dac/amp for connecting to laptop, you could also consider getting audio gd 15.32, it is a dac/amp combo.

Definitely thinking about the Modi/Magni combo.  I'm hoping they will work with my portable CD player.

 

[rubinstein]

  Definitely thinking about the Modi/Magni combo.  I'm hoping they will work with my portable CD player.

Modi is a dac and magni is an amp. so you can connect the amp to any source such as ipod or cd player.
 
if you buy modi/magni, make sure that you also order cables separately.

 

[Edward777]

 
Modi is a dac and magni is an amp. so you can connect the amp to any source such as ipod or cd player.
 
if you buy modi/magni, make sure that you also order cables separately.

Thanks.  I was reading something online (actually this) which implied that you can't connect desktop amps to portable CD players, but I didn't really read closely, and perhaps it's wrong. 
 
So the Modi/Magni do not come with the required cables to hook up to the headphones and CD player?  
 
Anyways, at the moment, I'm starting to lean towards either the HD 600/650 or the HiFiMan HE-400, based off the recommendations on this thread.  I might buy a cheaper headphone on the way there (M50, Grado, Sony MDR-7506, or something else), but I'm leaning towards one of the above three for a long-term, critical-listening/reference headphone.  Do you think the Modi/Magni combo would work well with the HE-400s and HD650s?  Or should I go Asgard/Modi?

 

[rubinstein]

  Thanks.  I was reading something online (actually this) which implied that you can't connect desktop amps to portable CD players, but I didn't really read closely, and perhaps it's wrong. 
 
Do you think the Modi/Magni combo would work well with the HE-400s and HD650s?  Or should I go Asgard/Modi?

 
I used to listen from a portable Sony audio cd player about a decade ago (I do not remember the model). It had two outputs, one is for headphone and another is for lineout for amp. Perhaps if your cd player has lineout, you can connect to the amp.
 
Modi/magni can drive both HE 400 and HD 650. But if you can stretch your budget, you could straight away buy audio gd 15.32 or 11.32.

 

[Claritas]

I, too, prefer CDs and CD players for the reason you mentioned, among others. I don't remember how portable CD players sound because it's been a very long time since I've had one, but I hear big differences between the CD player in my laptop and the full-sized Harman Kardon player I use. An engineer will tell you that the bigger ones have parts that counter distortion-causing vibrations.
 
You're right that many headphones don't need amps, but every one I've tried sounds at least a little better amped (if it was decent-sounding to begin with). I can get by without using an amp on my Harman, but it sounds better with my portable amp. You can always buy a portable amp to use with either sort of CD player.
 
The progression you mention from 60i to M50 to HD600 is common on Head-Fi, but I don't understand it because the most important change made there is not a change of cost or quality but of emphasis: changing from treble-rich to V-shaped to neutral. It makes more sense to discover what sort of sound you enjoy. One can find something close to each sound at most prices. I have found that using an equalizer and a basic speaker (in other words, not Grados, which are pleasantly distorted) helped me to do this. I used the EQ on my car's CD player.
 
Besides that, you should demo gear at stores and meets before buying whenever possible. Even relatively neutral makes will differ considerably. For example, I listened to HD650 for several hours at a store here and it's certainly different from K701, &c. So it's not what I want, but I respect the work Sennheiser put into it and I can tell that my Dad would really enjoy it. Likewise, HD600 will be a step up from 60i for you only if you prefer a more neutral sound. If you prefer the Grado sound or a V-shaped sound, it's a step down. And even if you prefer a more neutral sound, HD600 might not be the one to get.
 
My advice will make your choices harder right now. In the long run, you'll be happier and save money if you take it slow and discover what you really enjoy.

 

[2gumby2]

I also prefer the CD format and have over 3,500 now. I can hear a difference in some CD players, but even some of the lower priced CD players are quite good these days. I own a couple of Arcam FMJ CD37 CD players and they are the best CD players I've heard at any price. I also have a Sony SCD-XA5400ES and it is an outstanding player as well. Emotiva just released the ERC-3 with some very nice features and I think Onkyo and Marantz makes some nice players as well. The Audio Technica ATH-M50 is an excellent headphone and I really like mine. Another recommendation would be the Sennheiser HD 439. It doesn't seem to get a lot of attention, but I think it is a very nice headphone. I would recommend a headphone amplifier as I think it would ensure the power you need to get the most out of your headphones.

 

[rubinstein]

  I also prefer the CD format and have over 3,500 now.

 

I only have about 200

 

[Edward777]

So, sorry about not posting in a while, but I'm back!  I was on the Schiit site today.  It says that the Modi DAC ONLY works with computers (via USB), so I guess that's out in terms of me getting it as a DAC for my CD player.  I wonder if the step-up Loki would work?
 
I'm strongly considering the HiFiMan HE-400/500 and the HD600/650 for long-term use, although I probably won't splurge on them immediately, but might try a few $100 headphones first before I move up to them. 
 
And CDs FTW!  

 
 
Edit: Perhaps a portable amp/DAC would be the answer for using with a portable CD player?  

 

[rubinstein]

   I was on the Schiit site today.  It says that the Modi DAC ONLY works with computers (via USB), so I guess that's out in terms of me getting it as a DAC for my CD player.  I wonder if the step-up Loki would work?
 
I'm strongly considering the HiFiMan HE-400/500 and the HD600/650 for long-term use, although I probably won't splurge on them immediately, but might try a few $100 headphones first before I move up to them. 
 
And CDs FTW!  

 
 
Edit: Perhaps a portable amp/DAC would be the answer for using with a portable CD player?  

I would suggest you to go for DAP (such as fiio x3) and convert audio cds into FLAC format.