[macbrush]

You can simply set iTunes not to manage your music, or/and not import your music to leave them in where they're, just access them as necessary. You can also right click a song, and choose "Show in Finder" then it immediately takes you to the song file be it iTunes managing the files or not as well as imported or not. Basically what it means is that you can also manage your own files, and ask iTunes to catalog the directory that you're managing and take advantage of the iTunes database which is incredibly flexible and fast.

That's total control for the owner, and on the other hand, you can choose not to care and let iTunes to import and manage everything without even knowing where it stores the files.

If you hate Apple, i honestly don't mind, i am not a Apple shareholder (even if I am). But please do not make comments on products that you obviously know nothing about...

Quote:

Originally Posted by fwojciec /img/forum/go_quote.gif I want *my* music playing/managing application to give me a transparent access to *my* precious music collection and I expect it to be flexible enough to enable me to easily do what *I* want to do with it. It needs to know its place, in other words, and not overstep its authority. Itunes, by default, takes control of your music collection, hides it from you under a shiny gui, gives you only a limited access to it, and tries to influence what you can and what you can't do with it. And I know that you can wrestle some of the control away from itunes, I know, it's just the principle that offends me... And why would I want to wrestle with it anyways when there are much more, hmmm, congenial alternatives available. Other issues, such as it being a resource hog and such, are not that important compared to the above. If you're happy with how itunes works all power to you, though. Call me a "hater" if you will Go, linux hackers, go! That didn't take too long, did it?

 

[poo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by macbrush /img/forum/go_quote.gif But please do not make comments on products that you obviously know nothing about...

Or you could just take your own advice...

 

[immtbiker]

Children...please play nice!

 

[fwojciec]

Quote:

Originally Posted by macbrush /img/forum/go_quote.gif You can simply set iTunes not to manage your music, or/and not import your music to leave them in where they're, just access them as necessary. You can also right click a song, and choose "Show in Finder" then it immediately takes you to the song file be it iTunes managing the files or not as well as imported or not. Basically what it means is that you can also manage your own files, and ask iTunes to catalog the directory that you're managing and take advantage of the iTunes database which is incredibly flexible and fast. That's total control for the owner, and on the other hand, you can choose not to care and let iTunes to import and manage everything without even knowing where it stores the files. If you hate Apple, i honestly don't mind, i am not a Apple shareholder (even if I am). But please do not make comments on products that you obviously know nothing about...

I have used itunes for over a year, mostly just to get music onto my ipod (I would still use foobar as the music player, because it is much better, IMO). There is no itunes for linux so I don't use it anymore - and I don't really miss it either

I know that it is possible to configure itunes so it is bearable (given my standards and expectations), and I've mentioned it in my previous posts, but I've also seen a lot of people who have become completely, hopelessly hooked on itunes - because they don't know any better and use itunes with default settings. My guess would be that the vast majority of itunes users give up their control over their music to itunes, because the program is designed to achieve precisely this kind of effect on average.

And why is it, anyways, that so many among the enthusiastic apple/itunes users believe that when others choose to use different products it must be because of their unfortunate ignorance of the irresistible apple goodness? There are people out there who are not the target group for apple marketing schemes, you know, is it really so difficult to imagine?

 

[fwojciec]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebob /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think the problem here is what they "are" not what they are famous for. Mac OSX has a command line terminal that gives you all the power of UNIX. Another poster mentioned that there are "not many Apple programmers not working for Apple.", the OSX install DVD' provides you with a full suite of free developer tools to prototype, compile, debug, and optimize your applications, speeding up your development .... developer.apple.com/tools/ It was also mentioned that unless I can install Linux then I don't want it, you can with bootcamp, but why bother cos you can run LINUX software on it anyway. jbloudg 20 Wants to view the files on an iPod that is not synced to his machine, if you think about it it is not suprising that this is made dificult, so as not to attract the ire of the labels. But check out iPodripper. Lets get back to iTunes. Apple makes iPods and provides software that acceses every feature on that device. It's called iTunes. The reason that they would prefer people to use it, is that it makes support possible. Support is something that most of the people answering this thread don't appear to want to use, but the majority of Apple customers want an easy powerfull, full functioned interface with maker support. Walk into an Apple store, go to the Genius Bar and ask a serious question, and it gets answered. Phone them up, you get to talk to a real person that knows the answers. This system works. Now you can use one app to do this, and another app to do that, and gripe if the manufacturer updates hardware/software/firmware that breakes your after market kludge. Or... just use iTunes and get on with enjoying the music.

First of all the advantage of using linux simply can't be reduced to the ability to "run LINUX software". Linux lets you use your computer hardware in completely different way and according to a completely different philosophy than commercial operating systems. In linux I think about computer hardware in terms of possible functions it it is capable of performing, and then I use linux as a tool to realize these possibilities in practice. I don't start with the default and merely tweak it to my liking... I can build my operating system from ground up so it does what I want it to do and how I want it to do it using the means (software/solutions/methods) that I find most appropriate.

This is also why I have never needed or wanted to have my questions answered at the "Genius Bar" or by phoning "a real person that knows the answers".

In other words - "just use it and don't think too much about it" is simply not the way I want to relate to computer technology (and not the way I want to live, more generally) - although I understand that some people prefer it that way.

 

[thebob]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fwojciec /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's why I much prefer programs that are as transparent as possible, and I prefer to access my music directly by accessing the folder structure where my music is stored, (I use MPD in Linux to do just that.) At the same time I could easily migrate my music collection to at any of least 5 different programs (Amarok, Quod Libet, Rhythmbox, Aqualung, or Exaile in linux - for example) in under 5 minutes (the configuration in each case would simply involve specifying the folder where my music collection is located in most cases). This is because my music is organized independently of any particular software platform - it certainly is possible. There are programs out there that do not try to create a proprietary effects also - the "proprietary effect" is not there by circumstance only, but by design. I definitely agree with your last statement - that's how it seems to work very often, on some level at least.

You have just described exactly how you would migrate an iTunes library, you point the new manager at your music, either in the iTunes Music Folder (if you have selected let iTunes manage your music) or where ever it is if you haven't.

There is nothing proprietary about iTunes file structure. All iTunes does is write a database file (an XML file) that indexes where these files are and their metadata and any related lyrics, album art, playing prefs ect. There is no reason for this to be in the same directory as the music.

In fact this is a real advantage for example if your laptop HD is not big enough for all your music, when you plug in your external drive with your whole library you hold down the option key (shift on windows) then you get the option to create another library, or choose the one to load. Simple.

Pity there is no version for Linux, but then Linux people don't seem to want it.

 

[thebob]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fwojciec /img/forum/go_quote.gif First of all the advantage of using linux simply can't be reduced to the ability to "run LINUX software". Linux lets you use your computer hardware in completely different way and according to a completely different philosophy than commercial operating systems. In linux I think about computer hardware in terms of possible functions it it is capable of performing, and then I use linux as a tool to realize these possibilities in practice. I don't start with the default and merely tweak it to my liking... I can build my operating system from ground up so it does what I want it to do and how I want it to do it using the means (software/solutions/methods) that I find most appropriate. This is also why I have never needed or wanted to have my questions answered at the "Genius Bar" or by phoning "a real person that knows the answers". In other words - "just use it and don't think too much about it" is simply not the way I want to relate to computer technology (and not the way I want to live, more generally) - although I understand that some people prefer it that way.

First you can install any distro of Linux on an Intel Mac.

Second (Oopps no second) the Genius Bar is just like a real life MAN page, but it's always kept up to date.

Third (Oopps no third either) I understand that there are people like you who want to totally reinvent the wheel, but I am one of the practical people, using the wheel to get somewhere, I've no time to invent another one when this one is working.

I hope you don't take this post the wrong way, and I feel sorry that there is no 'easy' solution to using new iPods on Linux, but if the hardware doesn't work for you, don't buy it.

 

[Oyeve]

I gave up on ipods long ago. Primarily due to no real equalizer. I switched to an Archos AV-500 100gb a coupla years ago and for more portability I use my Sansa e280. I will not be a pod person controlled my a company into telling me how I can use my equipment I bought.

 

[fwojciec]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebob /img/forum/go_quote.gif You have just described exactly how you would migrate an iTunes library, you point the new manager at your music, either in the iTunes Music Folder (if you have selected let iTunes manage your music) or where ever it is if you haven't. There is nothing proprietary about iTunes file structure. All iTunes does is write a database file (an XML file) that indexes where these files are and their metadata and any related lyrics, album art, playing prefs ect. There is no reason for this to be in the same directory as the music. In fact this is a real advantage for example if your laptop HD is not big enough for all your music, when you plug in your external drive with your whole library you hold down the option key (shift on windows) then you get the option to create another library, or choose the one to load. Simple. Pity there is no version for Linux, but then Linux people don't seem to want it.

Yes, of course, it is possible to migrate except when you decide to move to another program you're likely to end up having to deal with a lot of tracks with generic file names and no tags (since iTunes, by default, doesn't write tags directly to files but stores them separately in the xml file you had mentioned). Again, there are workarounds for this, of course, but it is the default behavior which doesn't make any sense other than as a deliberate effort to lock naive users in.

We can go on an on like this so let's just agree to disagree

 

[poo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fwojciec /img/forum/go_quote.gif ...let's just agree to disagree

Wise suggestion. The iTunes banter has been done to death.

iTunes is great to some, and hideous to others... for many different reasons, preferences and priorities.

Once you have a really bad experience with any product it tarnishes your ability to try it again. Nothing wrong with that...

 

[thebob]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fwojciec /img/forum/go_quote.gif We can go on an on like this so let's just agree to disagree

Agreed, some people will look on this as an argument, and some as a discussion... still thats another thread

All the best head-fi people.

 

[Schalldampfer]

Hmmm... it looks like I unintentionally started a flame war of sorts...