[Maxvla]

 

And? Still waiting for any evidence that the "consensus" pick of custom IEM's for audiophiles is a company other than JHA. 
 
Or is it because you guys have so many more posts that I should automatically believe you?
 

How about your evidence that it is?

 

[Br777]

i hope we get an update soon...

 

[cooperpwc]

So we have to spoonfeed a guy who reaches lazy fabricated conclusions? I'm about to board a flight to Chile so it won't be me. But here are a couple of hints:
1. You created this false concept of consensus. When we smirk at it, it doesn't mean thar we support a different consensus.
2. Any audiophile opinion on superiority is irrelevant unless such opinion is based on personal comparative experience. (Therefore none from me.) So any supposed consensus you get from any of these threads is 99% circle jerk. There are in my estimation maybe 20 comparative reviews (if that) out there and you haven't read them. Right?
Oh and I post a lot because I'm bored and annoyed in equal measure.

 

[Tonyflo]

Okay, lazy "fabricated" is a bit harsh -- and how do you know I didn't do any research or read outside reviews? Presumptuous. 
 
Granted, I didn't read all 20, but here are a few that I came across before I purchased the 16's: 
 
http://www.pcmag.com/slideshow_viewer/0,3253,l%253D253737%2526a%253D253606%2526po%253D6,00.asp?p=n
 
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-20005384-47.html
 
http://www.stereophile.com/content/jh-audio-jh16-pro-ear-monitors
 
Obviously, this is not conclusive but I searched long and hard and couldn't find a single major review favoring the UE18's over the JH16's. There was no way for me to try them, so I took the $1200 purchase price seriously and did lots of homework. 
 
In terms of the Westone 5's, I stand somewhat corrected, I don't think I found one that said it was better than the 16's, but did see some that found it outperformed the 13's. I'm sure there are some that like the Westone 5's better than the Jh16's, and obviously the word "consensus" is a bit strong, but it seems to me that more reviewers (both on head-fi, and off) favor the JH line over top shelf IEM's from competitive brands. 
 
And dude, its pretty hard to judge ONLY by personal comparative reviews. Unless you go to every meet, that's just not possible. I agree that it would be ideal, but we have to make compromises and at times trust the opinion or [gasp] "consensus" of others. 
 
I'm sure once the 3A is widely shipping and the overall opinion is that it rocks, a LOT of people will be buying based on non-comparative circle jerk reviews and lazy fabricated consensus here at Head-fi. So I guess I'm not the only idiot here -- anyway, back to main topic and hoping JH sends everyone an update soon  
 
Quote:

So we have to spoonfeed a guy who reaches lazy fabricated conclusions? I'm about to board a flight to Chile so it won't be me. But here are a couple of hints:
1. You created this false concept of consensus. When we smirk at it, it doesn't mean thar we support a different consensus.
2. Any audiophile opinion on superiority is irrelevant unless such opinion is based on personal comparative experience. (Therefore none from me.) So any supposed consensus you get from any of these threads is 99% circle jerk. There are in my estimation maybe 20 comparative reviews (if that) out there and you haven't read them. Right?
Oh and I post a lot because I'm bored and annoyed in equal measure.

 

 

[Maxvla]

They are surely the most well known name here, but I wouldn't say they are the consensus. Other high end IEMs, the UM Miracle and Westone ES5 especially, seem to be giving the JH line a run for their money. With UM being a resheller AND from-scratch customs maker I see them as the rising force in customs right now. JH may have the pinnacle with the JH3A, but it won't take long for others to catch up, and perhaps surpass. I do hope to see active crossover systems being implemented by other companies, and would love a non-portable amp section also.

 

[jnug]

 
 

Well, here are two quotes from the same thread in this forum and I think they are two of the best posts in that thread which is all about the topic of best custom IEM. I included the first one in part because the poster clearly prefers something other than the JH16 if only marginally.
Quote:

Depends on how "best" is defined.

Each of the customs mentioned are good in their own respective way.

Ultimately, it all comes down to personal preference.

If you want an engaging, lively sound: ES5. If you want bass: JH16. If you want a flat, analytical sound: UERM.

 

Personally, only having heard the JH16 and ES5, I prefer the ES5 over the JH16. 

 

 
 
 

 
Quote:

I wouldn't narrow it down to that simple of an algorithm for deciding which IEM to go with. Although the JH16 handles low frequencies very well, that does not mean they do not provide an "engaging, lively sound" either.

 

I think it is more important to consider what you expect from your IEM. If you expect your IEM to have a wide, open soundstage that creates an almost holographic experience, then you have to decide if a better midrange is more important than that expectation. If you do decide that the midrange is more important, then you might skimp on the soundstage a little in favor of a better midrange. In this scenario, the Westone ES5 would probably be what you are leaning towards rather than the JH13/JH16.

 

Back to the main question though, these types of "sacrifices" are what you ultimately have to decide on when you're choosing a custom IEM. Keep in mind though that all top-tier custom IEMs sound very good--so the "sacrifices" are not as drastic as you would expect them to be. However subtle they might be, the differences are still there.

 

There is no "best" custom IEM. You define what "best" is, and that may not even be a custom IEM but may be a universal IEM.

 
This is just my opinion but I don't think there is a consensus around the question of best IEM unless you want to call the ever present "depends on your biases both in presentation and type of music" a consensus. The point these posters appear to be making is that at the top of the custom IEM market there are a few contenders that at least within the category of sonic performance are very close to each other, so close in fact that is boils down at that point to personal preference. 
 
The second poster that I quoted decided that using bass presentation or sonic coloration as the arbiter was not quite right. He opted to propose that the more relevant comparison was soundstage vs. more sonically accurate and engaging mid-range presentation going on to comment that while the differences are subtle, that they are still there and agreeing with the first poster that it was difficult to call any of the top performers the best at the top of the custom IEM market. He makes a good point as again for some types of music a muddled soundstage can result in a very unengaged even bored listener.
 
While this is a glaring generalization, I would be willing to bet that there are more folks interested in portable head-fi that in the main listen to modern music than classical music which might in fact make the bass bias vs no bass bias argument more relevant and may also boost the score for the J16s' if one were just looking at raw numbers.
 
I do also know that classical music can contain bass passages that if not handled very very cleanly by your equipment can border on annoying. At the same time you would be less likely to find a bass passage in a hip hop selection that would be quite that demanding of clean uncolored bass presentation on the one hand but for which a bit of bias toward bass would actually be desirable.
 
So if you are listening to music by type that does really demand as close to no coloration as possible in the bass passages then you might (with emphasis on the might) find the J16s' to be a less than optimal match. By the same token, if you are mainly listening to music for which a little base bias might be desirable, you might (with emphasis on the might) find something like the UERM's or 18s' to be a bit light for your taste both by presentation and musical type. Then again if your taste and musical preferences lead you to a determination that the soundstage vs mid-range presentation is the more relevant, then maybe the ES5 to J16 comparison is where your head should be.
 
Frankly there are a number of threads here that go through a number of different aspects of IEM quality and performance, all of them relevant especially when you consider that many of the posters here are really devoted to portable audio. Heck, maybe you beat the living hell out of your portable equipment and the thing you should really care about is mechanical integrity or resistance to damage when you are about to plunk down $1,000 for IEMs'.
 
As I stated earlier, my interest in the JH-3A/JH16 combination stems from a recognition that at the very top of the custom IEM market the distinctions appear to be very small and hard to discern with some opting for one over the other for a variety of reasons. Given that reality, to me the integration of the JH-3A with the JH-16 and the way that is implemented becomes the thing that pushes the discussion to a different level. I just don't see how an IEM that might (with emphasis on the might) be marginally better in its sonic presentation can compete with an IEM using the platform that the JH-3A and the JH-16 combination is using. It would not seem to me to even be a fair fight. 

 

[Tonyflo]

True guys. I admitted and will continue to admit my folly for stating or giving my impression that JH16's (or 13's) are objectively better or the universal "consensus" pick as best. 
 
Certainly it's partly subjective, partly dependent on music interests, and also dependent on source gear -- all which vary widely. 
 
In retrospect, I didn't state it properly, but my feeling (and attempted point) was simply that more audiophiles (here and elsewhere) seem to prefer JH products.I should have made a less strong or objectively sounding statement, because the reality is that there is no official measure. Again, I stand corrected. Even popularity is misleading (and I do believe that JH sells more than Westone, and possibly UE) -- because even if that were true, it means nothing objective about quality either. Sales is more a function of marketing versus other factors (like quality) -- and if sales = quality, Monster Beats (or a mass product like that) would be "best." 
 
One thing I DO feel - which ties into this thread - is that our perception of consensus, even if not objective or officially 100% accurate, is VERY important and often how buying decisions are made online. I'm quite sure most JH customers purchased based on reading many favorable reviews, even favorable comparative reviews, and I'm sure the same will be the case with the 3A. If there are a lot of favorable reviews and the consensus seems to be that it's awesome, many will buy on that basis. Including me. It can lead to more mistakes, but if didn't judge by this, then it would mean sitting on the sideline waiting forever to demo the product
 
Like I said, doing comparative tests is not always possible - in many cases it's rarely possible - except for the very small minority with connections, or who attend meets. 
 
I've admitted my error in pushing my perception of consensus of JH/"best" as fact, yet overall we shouldn't fault people for trying to read many reviews and come to some sort conclusion about whether a product is worth trying/buying based on that sort of assessment. It's actually a MUCH more evolved way to purchase vs. impulse buying that many consumers do, more than ever online people will purchase this way in absence of seeing/touching/experiencing the product beforehand. 
 
Also, different reviewers have different weight. I really value what those like Warp, JP and others have to say about the product -- and so if enough guys like that have positive impressions it can be persuasive. 

 

[music_4321]

Quote:

They are surely the most well known name here, but I wouldn't say they are the consensus. Other high end IEMs, the UM Miracle and Westone ES5 especially, seem to be giving the JH line a run for their money. With UM being a resheller AND from-scratch customs maker I see them as the rising force in customs right now. JH may have the pinnacle with the JH3A, but it won't take long for others to catch up, and perhaps surpass. I do hope to see active crossover systems being implemented by other companies, and would love a non-portable amp section also.

True about the Westone ES5, not so about the UM Miracle. There are literally just a handful of Miracle owners at present, whereas there are plenty of ES5 owners and a 225-page ES5 dedicated thread started 15 months ago. The Miracle thread, by contrast, is only 12 pages long and started 9 months ago. Some ES5 owners have indeed tried the JH13 and/or JH16. The Miracles have been getting more attention only in the last few weeks because of a single review by a HF'er who has tried plenty of universals but only one $400 set of customs before getting the Miracle (which was given to him as a present by some members of the HF community).
 

 

[Maxvla]

A good portion of why the UM Miracle isn't more popular is because Head-fi is primarily based in the Americas and UM is Australian/Asian based. They don't have the penetration here like Westone, UE, and JH have. Look at the Asian and Australian meet threads and you will find them all over the place, not just a handful.

 

[music_4321]

 

^ That's interesting/odd because although Westone is based in the USA, there seem to be, in fact, more Asian ES5 owners than US-based owners - at least that is the case if you check the ES5 owners who post on the ES5 thread I mentioned in my previous post. It's all the more interesting if you consider that Asians (and Europeans) have to pay (a lot) more for their ES5 sets than US-based customers, and also have to face longer shipping times which may require them to be even more patient, and all the more when re-fits are involved. 
 
UM customs, which are made in China, are cheaper than Westone, Ultimate Ears & JH Audio's. On top of that, in the last year or so, UM have been offering discounts (for instance, up to 20% in Australia for group buys in the last 3 months) and they've even been making it easier for customers to get demo sets if they pay a deposit. And then, of course, there's a UM rep who has been quite active on HF in the last 9 months or so.
​

 

[Maxvla]

Didn't realize that was the case with the ES5. Interesting indeed. We're a bit off topic so I'll drop the subject.

 

[Tonyflo]

Uggh, I really feel for those who plunked their money down so early and still waiting - no movement on this thread usually means no movement or change with the product shipping or updates. 
 
Seems like there's been nothing concrete to report for at least a week. Any updates that haven't been mentioned here? Do they plan to resume shipping later this week? 
 

 

[jnug]

I was really torn between posting this and just saying nothing. It certainly could be perceived as next to nothing anyway. When I saw the question I figured what the heck. When I called JHA just a couple days ago with some other questions regarding the JH-3A I happened to ask almost as an aside it it made sense to order at this point or if it made more sense to wait.The response was "try us in about two weeks and lets see where we are then". That could mean they have an expectation or then again not but that is what they said.
 
It was a good discussion and I don't think the person on the other end thought I had my fishing line out there looking to make trouble and in fact I wasn't even intending to ask anything about lead time. 
 
My sense of it is that they are disappointed in the delays as well. Somebody posted many posts back that he did not wonder if some of the delay factor related to how far removed this product is from JHA's standard fair and having been in electronics for 35 years, I don't wonder the same thing. 
 
I feel for you folks that have waited for a long time as well. I once waited two years for an audio piece and while it eventually worked out, at one point the whole thing felt kind of ridiculous. I would check to see what was going on every once and awhile when I could get my head above water from work load. If it were not for that I probably would have been much more frustrated.
 

 

[Maxvla]

Starting to wonder if it will even be ready for RMAF which I figured would be a sure thing...

 

[sling5s]

As few as you are, any JH-3A owners try the JH-3A with Powered USB Hub with iPad?
 
Edit: Yes, it works with iPad when used with powered USB hub.