[james6333]

Which other IEM is less colored in your opinion? Even other reference monitors like UERR have that slightly elevated bass.

I don't have much experience with IEM. I owened the Shure SE530 (old ones that broke all the time) they had no highs and sounded like mud. I also had and still have the UE triple fi 10 which is like the UE900 before Logitech bought UE. The recessed mids are my main issues here also the heavy handed bass does not help the mids out.

I have owned the Etymotics (both models) for a few weeks. While the ER4SR tonally seems very accurate to me it gets other things wrong like lack of impact and the timbre seems off but I think this is more of a general IEM issue.

I can't sit here and tell you what sounds natural as I listen to very little live un-amped music what I can tell you is that when my stereo is tuned (active subs) to measure flat (never perfect) in my room the ER4XR has more bass than the stereo and the stereo is closer to the ER4SR. But this is really not the issue. The speakers have so much more impact and drive so even when the bass is tonally the same volume the stereo just has more impact. I find this to be true when comparing headphones to IEM too and I feel many IEM manufactures have gotten into the habit of adjusting the FR to make it seem like they have more impact.

I am hoping that a high end 8 driver IEM will bring more impact simply because it can move more air than the Etymotics. Is that true? I don't know... it could just be a balanced armature thing. But the PP8 is at the top of my list right now.

 

[Crusic]

 It seems like you once had the Stagediver 4, can I ask how does it compare to the prophile 8? I'm looking for a relatively neutral IEM with an accurate sounding tuning (true to how instruments sound in real life).
Would the SD4 fit that description?
Or would IEMs such as the Prophile 8 or Etymotic ER4 fit that description better?

 
Well I can only compare from memory but SD4 comes closer to PP8 with both switches on. PP8 IMHO has way better resolution, mids are not that much recessed (especially vocals felt a bit too much in the background on the SD4 for my taste) and is free of sibilance. I don't like compare the stage from my memory but both are defintely pretty good.
SD4 has some sibilance. To sum it up SD4 is more v-shaped compared to pp8 with both switches on.
 
So here comes the tricky part, do you really mean neutral or more natural? Basically what this means for me is that a neutral sound is really how instruments sound live without tuning e.g. when I play it myself at home without any amp. Natural (in my opinion) always has that slight v-shape to create more fun, we are basically raised with.
 
PP8 can handle both parts pretty well thanks to the switches. SD4 is not neutral like I said it's a bit more than natural for my taste, SD2 is rather neutral. Personally, I prefered my SD2 which I own for more than three years now over SD4.
Ety is neutral but I still haven't heard it so I can't compare it. Especially in terms of detail and stage the PP8 should be far ahead due to the uneven dual 1 vs. 8 BA.

 

[Crusic]

 The speakers have so much more impact and drive so even when the bass is tonally the same volume the stereo just has more impact. I find this to be true when comparing headphones to IEM too and I feel many IEM manufactures have gotten into the habit of adjusting the FR to make it seem like they have more impact.

I know what you mean but you can't copy a flat headphone or stereo monitor into an IEM, technically due to acoustic noise and influences through your body and inner/outer ear.
Basically there are two and a half camps of IEM: dynamic, BA and hybrids
Every camp has its favour and advantages. Maybe you are more into hybrids or dynamics you should definitely try some different types.
Listen is always better than reading

 
So can the PP8 move more air than Ety sure it has more bass drivers it has a better quality; Ety has only one for all frequencies but your question is something no one can answer but you. Maybe you even like a less "boomy" and more accurate BA if you hear it of higher quality.
Maybe you just need to give your ears a bit time to adjust to the difference.
 
Try to get a demo unit and test yourself. Sorry but that's the best advice I can give.

 

[bartzky]

"Neutral" is a big word in the world of headphones and IEMs. Even the science hasn't completely settled on that topic. So it was a rather wise choice of InEar going for the term "reference signature" instead. There are many different targets that are considered neutral and the ProPhile is certainly well between many of them, so reference signature seems to be an eligible claim.
 
In terms of frequency response the PP8 and Andromeda have not much in common. The SD4 is a much closer fit to the Andromeda's signature.

 

[Crusic]

 The SD4 is a much closer fit to the Andromeda's signature.

 
Yep that's true. Like I said Andromeda is more v-shapped than PP8 with both switches on and SD4 is more v-shapped, too.
 
Well actually reference is a big word, too. There's so many confusion around correct expression. But I agree with you reference might be the better word.

 

[james6333]

Good conversation here and everyone seems to know their stuff. I am defiantly in the minority thinking that IEM are over tuned but I am fine being in the minority.

Options for flat universal fit IEMs are pretty slim. These and the Etymotics are the only two I know of at this time. The majority seem to be tuned by ear based on preference. Probably true for customs too but I have never messed with them.

 

[ezzo]

Well I can only compare from memory but SD4 comes closer to PP8 with both switches on. PP8 IMHO has way better resolution, mids are not that much recessed (especially vocals felt a bit too much in the background on the SD4 for my taste) and is free of sibilance. I don't like compare the stage from my memory but both are defintely pretty good.
SD4 has some sibilance. To sum it up SD4 is more v-shaped compared to pp8 with both switches on.

So here comes the tricky part, do you really mean neutral or more natural? Basically what this means for me is that a neutral sound is really how instruments sound live without tuning e.g. when I play it myself at home without any amp. Natural (in my opinion) always has that slight v-shape to create more fun, we are basically raised with.

PP8 can handle both parts pretty well thanks to the switches. SD4 is not neutral like I said it's a bit more than natural for my taste, SD2 is rather neutral. Personally, I prefered my SD2 which I own for more than three years now over SD4.
Ety is neutral but I still haven't heard it so I can't compare it. Especially in terms of detail and stage the PP8 should be far ahead due to the uneven dual 1 vs. 8 BA.

My idea of neutral is a basically flat frequency response, which is what a diffuse field EQ tuned IEMs such as ER4XR/SR and even prophile 8 (if you compare the frequency response graphs) are.
My Westone 4R with 100R impedance adapter sounds much better than stock with a reduced mid-bass, elevated upper mids and still maintains the original warm sound signature. It sounds fine with most modern mainstream music (Pop to Metal) but once it plays classical or acoustic guitar, the warmness(to me dips in upper mids and lower treble) shows it's flaws immediately and instruments sound rolled off and overly warm.
My Klipsch X10i with the 100R impedance adapter has that flat frequency response and is superior to my TF10/Westones 4R in all terms - imaging, coherency, clarity and even resolution. The channel ID test by Dr Chesky is so uncannily real it gave me goosebumps.
I suspect it's incredibly difficult to have a elevated bass response and maintain the coherency and resolution for instruments like the drums and bass guitar, but I haven't heard the latest TOTL IEMs so someone correct me if I'm wrong.

It sounds like SD4 is not for me if it is way behind the prophile 8 in terms of resolution since that is what I'm after from my current trio of X10/TF10/4R.

I remember the review of the Etymotic ER4XR by headfonics or headfonia compared it to the Prophile 8 and said they both have very similar frequency response, with it at a much more reasonable price.
That might just be what I'm after, if I can adjust to the deep insertion (X

 

[genki]

Any input on which DAP could bring out PP8 potency?
I am still waiting my PP8, currently i use ie7,ie8, TF10 recabled, UE9000 and most of the time my Z3 already nice enough and i never use my fiio E17 which i often use with my ipod nano
But i am not sure those DAP would enough to bring out all the good thing of PP8.. hmm... but AK380 cost is too much, so i am considering AK Jr or other brand..

 

[vilhelm44]

Any input on which DAP could bring out PP8 potency?
I am still waiting my PP8, currently i use ie7,ie8, TF10 recabled, UE9000 and most of the time my Z3 already nice enough and i never use my fiio E17 which i often use with my ipod nano
But i am not sure those DAP would enough to bring out all the good thing of PP8.. hmm... but AK380 cost is too much, so i am considering AK Jr or other brand..

 
I've only used mine with the Sony WM1A, both SE and balanced and they sound wonderful together...slightly more so in balanced mode. A totally immersive experience.

 

[genki]

I've only used mine with the Sony WM1A, both SE and balanced and they sound wonderful together...slightly more so in balanced mode. A totally immersive experience.

Another 1k ++ it seems for fully satisfaction ouch my wallet...

 

[ezzo]

Another 1k ++ it seems for fully satisfaction ouch my wallet...

I'm in the camp that believes that sources/amps/etc should be as neutral as possible and let the headphones/IEMs sound how they are tuned/meant to be, anything else is a fancy EQ to me.

 

[genki]

I'm in the camp that believes that sources/amps/etc should be as neutral as possible and let the headphones/IEMs sound how they are tuned/meant to be, anything else is a fancy EQ to me.

I agree on that, which DAP do you use?

 

[ezzo]

I agree on that, which DAP do you use?

I'm probably not the one is ask since I care more about sustainability than the best/latest audio quality.
My DAP is the first gen Fiio X5, which I will change when it breaks or degrades significantly.
It has a neutral-warm sound signature and a quality DAC/amp section.
I have haven't heard the latest audiophile DAPs though.

 

[koroshiya8]

Just wanted to share my humble opinion as pretty much a 'layman'.
I have been using the Andromeda for 3months+ and so far has been hugely impressed. 
Ever since the Vega was released i had not the chance to try it out.
However today i finally did and was PERSONALLY very disappointed as it did not impressed me at all. 
 
Suddenly just before i left the shopkeeper pulled out the PP8 and first look was that it was huge @ 8 drivers.
 
I had to listen for only 2 minutes on 2 different tracks and immediately i got WOW by the sound for their incredible details. The fit was also awesome for a Universal.
 
Might be getting them today.

 

[Crusic]

 i got WOW by the sound for their incredible details.

 
I totally agree on it. I had the same feeling when comparing Andromeda and PP8 though both are pretty nice. Did you try it in reference mode or with switche(s) on?