New here and need some advice for under a Helmet

[p40whk]

Hi all,
 
I've been lurking for quite a while doing research for a new set of IEMs. My only experience with these are an older pair of Shure SCL3s and another pair of Shure's that I picked up for around $99 (don't know the model).
 
I have around $300-$400 to spend and primarily use these for noise isolation under a motorcycle helmet. My current Shure's work Ok but not the best as far as isolation and sound quality.
 
I was planning on purchasing a $400 helmet thinking the helmet was the cause of my noise but doubt that the money I spend on the helmet will isolate the noise as much as a new set of IEMs will.
 
I did purchase a set of custom molded ear plugs that use the iPhone earbuds as drivers but could not wear them under my helmet (similar to the Earsound Customs: https://earsound.com/products/custom-headphone-earbud-attachments) I still have the molds in case I want to have customs made but these hurt my ears and I stopped wearing them.
 
From the research I've done so far, the Westone UM3X seems to be a good value and may do what I want. I lost about 5% of my hearing while running Jet engines in the military so my audio quality needs may not be as strict as others. The Head Gear section of this site has the UM3X's ranked at #46 with the Monoprice 8320 (a $7 item) ranked at #15 so it can get a bit confusing.
 
I'll continue to research through the forums and do a few more searches but hope that there some of you out there that might have gone through this already and could provide some advice.
 
Thanks!
 
Jeff

 

[soundstige]

Etymotic ER4S.
 
Over 30dB of isolation. Unmatched audio quality. 96% true-to-source accuracy. Tiny and lightweight. Only ~$200 used, $299 new. And if you're a cheapie, you can get the Etymotic HF5 which isolates just as well as the ER4S, sounds about 80% as good, and is only ~$100 new.
 
And yes, an IEM that isolates as well as the ER4S would perform much better than buying a new helmet. And you get to listen to music.

 

[p40whk]

So what's the difference between the 4S and 4PT? Ety's website isn't coming up for me for some reason.
 

 

[soundstige]

ER4 S -> "Stereo", 100ohm impedance that responds best from amplification, but returns the favor with the best sound quality possible. Still gets plenty loud enough on any portable mp3 player, just doesn't "unlock" fully. "The original".
 
ER4 B -> "Binaural", meant for binaural recordings only.
 
ER4 P -> "Portable", 27ohm impedance that is driveable by even the dinkiest portable audio hardware, but the audio quality -- while great -- isn't quite what ER4S is. Audio quality found in ER4S can be regained by using a 75ohm "P to S" adapter.
 
ER4 PT -> "Portable Travel", same as ER4P with easy of transportation (airplane adapter and smaller case) in mind.
 
Quote:

So what's the difference between the 4S and 4PT? Ety's website isn't coming up for me for some reason.
 

 

[p40whk]

Quote:

ER4 S -> "Stereo", 100ohm impedance that responds best from amplification, but returns the favor with the best sound quality possible. Still gets plenty loud enough on any portable mp3 player, just doesn't "unlock" fully. "The original".
 
ER4 B -> "Binaural", meant for binaural recordings only.
 
ER4 P -> "Portable", 27ohm impedance that is driveable by even the dinkiest portable audio hardware, but the audio quality -- while great -- isn't quite what ER4S is. Audio quality found in ER4S can be regained by using a 75ohm "P to S" adapter.
 
ER4 PT -> "Portable Travel", same as ER4P with easy of transportation (airplane adapter and smaller case) in mind.
 

 
Got it thanks Soundstige, So if I went with the 4S, is there a portable amplifier that would be a good fit with these? Since the cost of the -4S is less than the UM3X I'd have a bit more $$ to spend. An amp would give me volume control while on my bike and I could keep my iPod in my pocket isolated from the vibrations of the bike.
 
I hadn't thought to research amps so I'm behind the curve there.
 

 

[GN-0015]

Ety IEMs are always nice to have, but since you're already used to Shure's sound signature, maybe you could try some newer Shure models. SE215 is cheap, good at isolation and quite comfortable. You can also try some Phonak PFE112. They sound great for their price, and the replaceable filters thing is very well implemented. They are really comfortable too, but they don't isolate as good as the Shures.

 

[tomscy2000]

Depending on the size/shape of p40whk's ears, the ER4 form factor may not be suitable for use under a motorcycle helmet.
 
I'd also recommend the ACS T15, which is probably the tiniest IEM I've ever encountered. It's also a good, analytical IEM with the same level of noise isolation as that of Etymotic. They're probably a better choice than the ER4/HF5 because of the form factor. They can also be fit with custom silicone ear tips, and because they're from ACS, they're of high quality (Etymotic outsources custom ear tip production to ACS).
 
However, if we're serious about helping him protect his hearing as well as safely operate a motorcycle, I'd recommend electronic earplugs instead of earphones. They will attenuate noises that you don't want, and allow you to hear ones that you do. Etymotic does seem to be the key innovator in this segment, though many other manufacturers make passive earplugs that attenuate SPLs to manageable levels evenly instead of selectively, at a lower price.

 

[planx]

Seeing how I used to have the SCL3 as well (as you can see I re-shelled it because I liked it so much), Etymotics are a big no-no with helmets. I suggest something over-the-ear and something that rests flat in your ears, something like any Westone, New Shure SE series, or even the PFE1xx can work, but I haven't tried the PFE with helmets. I found the SE215 to work with my full-face bike helmet, but I found other IEMs to have trouble. And for what IEMs you want, can you tell us what your preferences are? Before jumping to the UM3X, I suggest telling us some info about yourself because you might end up not liking the UM3X

 

[p40whk]

Quote:

Seeing how I used to have the SCL3 as well (as you can see I re-shelled it because I liked it so much), Etymotics are a big no-no with helmets. I suggest something over-the-ear and something that rests flat in your ears, something like any Westone, New Shure SE series, or even the PFE1xx can work, but I haven't tried the PFE with helmets. I found the SE215 to work with my full-face bike helmet, but I found other IEMs to have trouble. And for what IEMs you want, can you tell us what your preferences are? Before jumping to the UM3X, I suggest telling us some info about yourself because you might end up not liking the UM3X

 
Why are the Etymotics a big no-no with helmets?
 
A little about myself:
 
I ride about 30 minutes to and from work each day 90% is highway at about 70mph.  The wind noise in my helmet is almost unbearable without some type of hearing protection and the Shure's do block out most of that noise but not enough for my taste.
 
I use an iPhone 5 as my music source.
 
I no longer have the Shure SCL3's (they were stolen) so right now I'm using the Shure SE102's (http://tinyurl.com/c3gvo2t) and they just are not adequate.
 
My listening preferences are varied; I have a lot of classical music (probably half of my library or more is classical), then rock, pop, electronic and alternative in that order. 
 
I don't listen to the music at a deafening rate, just loud enough so that I can understand the words and hear the fine points of a song and not hear the wind noise. Typically I can hear most of the traffic and I'm fairly alert while driving.
 
I've tried numerous other cheap earphones and most of them stick out too far and interfere with the helmet. I have to push the Shure's in pretty far to get the helmet over my head without the helmet pulling them out of the canal as I slide it past my ears.
 
One other issue I have; I need to purchase whatever I buy from Amazon as I have a gift card for a sizable sum for them, so, that may leave some model/brands out.
 
Fit is another thing I'm not sure how to determine which is best. I do know the Shure's fit for me now but the models I've used are no longer in production so newer models may not fit the same. They have to not stick out from my ear too much to get the helmet on plus they need to be comfortable for extended wear as I do work out in the yard with them on most of the day.
 
It's confusing especially since I can only afford to buy one pair so I'd like to get it right the first time.

 

[eke2k6]

I own the Etymotic HF3, and I've owned the Shure SE215. Both isolate like the movie Castaway, and both can work under your helmet, depending how deep you're willing to stck something in your ears.
 
When I insert the HF3 deeply, almost no part of the body is left outside of the ear. This would work well with your helmet. If you're not comfortable with deep insertion, then the SE215 would be a safer choice. It loops over-ear, and lays flush against your outer ear. This would allow you to use your helmet. Plus, at the noise levels you described, you won't really be able to discern the SQ advantages the HF3 has. The SE215 has more bass, which will allow you to feel your music more.

 

[punks15]

Quote:

 
Got it thanks Soundstige, So if I went with the 4S, is there a portable amplifier that would be a good fit with these? Since the cost of the -4S is less than the UM3X I'd have a bit more $$ to spend. An amp would give me volume control while on my bike and I could keep my iPod in my pocket isolated from the vibrations of the bike.
 
I hadn't thought to research amps so I'm behind the curve there.
 

Assuming your budget is around $100 : Fiio E11, Soundmagic A10, JDSLabs CMOY/C421, etc

 

[p40whk]

Still doing some research and wish I had the ability to try some of these on before ordering them but I have narrowed my choices down a bit. Thanks for the advice and keep it coming, I'm learning a lot here.
 
So far, Based on price, suggestions and reviews, these are what I'm considering:
 
Etymotic ER-4S ($300) with a FiiO E11 ($50) = $350 Total
Audeo PFE 132 ($239) w/E11 = $290 Total
Etymotic HF3 ($179) w/E11 = $230 Total
Audeo PFE 112 ($169) w/E11 = $220
Etymotic HF5 ($99) w/E11 = $150 Total
Audeo PFE 012 ($99) w/E11 = $150
Shure SE215 ($87) w/E11 = $137
 
All of these seemed to get good reviews but vary widely in price point. The Ety's are probably at my max range in price. I have three of the PFE's on my list because I have read a lot of good about all of them and very little bad. They isolate the least of the group but the sound quality
 
Right now I'm trying to figure out which of the above will give me the best bang for my $$. The Shure's price point is hard to pass up (as GN-0015 pointed out above) and the PFE's will probably require me to spend another $15 on comply tips to get the isolation I want.
 
I've had many pairs of different Shure models so I'm familiar with them but have not listened to any of the other brands. I have no idea how they would fit in my ears either but I do not have any problems with deep insertion earphones.
 
If I threw my dart at the middle price  point the Audeo PFE 112 would be it and the choice would be easy but Price isn't my only prerequisite. Any more suggestions or clarifications would be appreciated.
 

 

[eke2k6]

Quote:

Still doing some research and wish I had the ability to try some of these on before ordering them but I have narrowed my choices down a bit. Thanks for the advice and keep it coming, I'm learning a lot here.
 
So far, Based on price, suggestions and reviews, these are what I'm considering:
 
Etymotic ER-4S ($300) with a FiiO E11 ($50) = $350 Total
Audeo PFE 132 ($239) w/E11 = $290 Total
Etymotic HF3 ($179) w/E11 = $230 Total
Audeo PFE 112 ($169) w/E11 = $220
Etymotic HF5 ($99) w/E11 = $150 Total
Audeo PFE 012 ($99) w/E11 = $150
Shure SE215 ($87) w/E11 = $137
 
All of these seemed to get good reviews but vary widely in price point. The Ety's are probably at my max range in price. I have three of the PFE's on my list because I have read a lot of good about all of them and very little bad. They isolate the least of the group but the sound quality
 
Right now I'm trying to figure out which of the above will give me the best bang for my $$. The Shure's price point is hard to pass up (as GN-0015 pointed out above) and the PFE's will probably require me to spend another $15 on comply tips to get the isolation I want.
 
I've had many pairs of different Shure models so I'm familiar with them but have not listened to any of the other brands. I have no idea how they would fit in my ears either but I do not have any problems with deep insertion earphones.
 
If I threw my dart at the middle price  point the Audeo PFE 112 would be it and the choice would be easy but Price isn't my only prerequisite. Any more suggestions or clarifications would be appreciated.
 

 
At that speed/noise level, you'll have a hard time trying to discern the improvement in SQ that the others have over the Shure. If anything, the shures will sound better due to their higher bass output and forward mids. Also, the Shure doesn't need an amp to sound its best, so your total expenditure would only be $87.

 

[p40whk]

Quote:

 
At that speed/noise level, you'll have a hard time trying to discern the improvement in SQ that the others have over the Shure. If anything, the shures will sound better due to their higher bass output and forward mids. Also, the Shure doesn't need an amp to sound its best, so your total expenditure would only be $87.

Thanks eke, so if I'm reading you right the Shures are my best bet for under my helmet and if that's all I used them for I would be a happy camper. When I read what you wrote it made me ask myself, "what about when I'm not riding and all I want is good sound quality?" Therein lies the rub! Part of me wants only the great isolation but another part wants great sound quality. On of the reason's I'm leaning to one of the middle ranged IEMs

 

[eke2k6]

Quote:

Thanks eke, so if I'm reading you right the Shures are my best bet for under my helmet and if that's all I used them for I would be a happy camper. When I read what you wrote it made me ask myself, "what about when I'm not riding and all I want is good sound quality?" Therein lies the rub! Part of me wants only the great isolation but another part wants great sound quality. On of the reason's I'm leaning to one of the middle ranged IEMs

 
The SE215 is great in its own right, and you won't find it lacking unless you're used to better iems.