[Teunan87]

Hi there,

Let me introduce myself. I'm Teun, 33 years and living in the Netherlands. Although I'm pretty happy with my hifi setup I'm currently looking for the next step. Since I have my hifi set in the living room I cannot improve acoustics any further. Because of this I want to pursue the perfect sound with a new headphone and maybe external headphone amp.

My want-to-listen list:

• Audeze LCD 2 and 3
• Hifiman Arya and 1000se
• Meze Empyrean
• Final A8000
• Sennheiser HD800
• Maybe others, depending on stock

I want to pair the headphone with my current setup: Bluesound node 2i as streamer and Hegel H190 as amp. Attached to the amp are the Dynaudio Special Forty. I want at least 2x better sound with the headphone. I mainly listen to jazz, instrumental music and classical music and pop/rock. To name some artists: Pat Metheny, Rippingtons, Jens Jefsen, Daft punk, Bill Withers, JJ Cale, Larry Carlton, The Eagles, Tony Rice, Tommy Emmanuel, Thomas Blug and Donald Fagen.

As always, there are multiple options. What I now set up in my head are the following two options:

• Buy a more expensive headphone and just use the standard headphone out from the Hegel H190. The problem with this option is that I do not know if the standard headphone output of the Hegel delivers enough quality to truly let the expensive headphone shine. E.g. Meze Empyrean.
• Buy a less expensive headphone and use a (better) external headphone amp. For example an Arya or LCD 2 in combination with a Rupert Neve headphone amp. The problem with this option is that the fixed RCA outputs are already occupied by a subwoofer. There is also a variable output RCA in the Hegel but I don't think this is going to work. Am I right?

Total budget is between 2500 and 4000 Euro.

Please let me know your opinion. Also alternative headphone suggestions and headphone amps. All suggestions and feedback is welcome.

Regards,
Teun

 

[gimmeheadroom]

Hi,

Generally, if you want a good headphone experience you need to get a separate headamp. Almost no integrated amps today can drive the majority of headphones well. They might sound ok but that's only until you try them out of a good amp. Even most midrange or higher headphones that are easily driven will still scale to the point it's worth getting a separate headamp.

I think the LCD-3 is a really good all around pair of cans for the music styles you listed. But they are very slightly analytical and very resolving. They are not difficult to drive well but will sound better out of a good amp because they're resolving. You could try them out of your Hegel and if you enjoy them you have time to shop for a headamp later.

There is a long thread on the Empyreans. It seems like people either love them or hate them.

As a pure pair of classical cans, the HD 800 (I have not heard the S model but it shouldn't be radically different in this niche) is going to be hard to beat. However, they're not enjoyable for most other music. And they need a good amp. In solid state amps, Violectrics do particularly well with Sennheisers. Tube OTL amps are usually an excellent choice for Sennheisers also. Sky is the limit on pricing, check the threads in the fullsize headamps section.

It is possible to use variable output to drive a headamp but I would not do it. There is a risk of blowing your brains out and destroying equipment if you get tired. A momentary lapse of concentration is enough to destroy your hearing or expensive setup. My rule is every source runs at 100% output and the volume is always controlled at the amplifier. And this is the correct approach for the best sound quality, amps are designed to be fully driven and that is how they are rated.

It's impossible to measure sound improvement and put a number on it like twice as good, 1/3 as good etc. Many of the changes are subtle, most of them depend on the exact recording you're listening to, your personal preferences in how you like things to sound, and all of your gear (ok well not cables). There is also the comfort issue with headphones that you don't have with speakers. I find Audeze cans among the most comfortable I have, despite the fact they're extremely heavy. Many people say the Sennheiser HD 800 is the most comfortable pair of headphones they ever tried, mine hurt my head. If at all possible, listen to all of the cans under consideration using recordings you know. It takes a while to hear what the headphone is saying. Many times years later we still discover some nuance or aspect we didn't know about before.

 

[Teunan87]

Hi,

Generally, if you want a good headphone experience you need to get a separate headamp. Almost no integrated amps today can drive the majority of headphones well. They might sound ok but that's only until you try them out of a good amp. Even most midrange or higher headphones that are easily driven will still scale to the point it's worth getting a separate headamp.

I think the LCD-3 is a really good all around pair of cans for the music styles you listed. But they are very slightly analytical and very resolving. They are not difficult to drive well but will sound better out of a good amp because they're resolving. You could try them out of your Hegel and if you enjoy them you have time to shop for a headamp later.

There is a long thread on the Empyreans. It seems like people either love them or hate them.

As a pure pair of classical cans, the HD 800 (I have not heard the S model but it shouldn't be radically different in this niche) is going to be hard to beat. However, they're not enjoyable for most other music. And they need a good amp. In solid state amps, Violectrics do particularly well with Sennheisers. Tube OTL amps are usually an excellent choice for Sennheisers also. Sky is the limit on pricing, check the threads in the fullsize headamps section.

It is possible to use variable output to drive a headamp but I would not do it. There is a risk of blowing your brains out and destroying equipment if you get tired. A momentary lapse of concentration is enough to destroy your hearing or expensive setup. My rule is every source runs at 100% output and the volume is always controlled at the amplifier. And this is the correct approach for the best sound quality, amps are designed to be fully driven and that is how they are rated.

It's impossible to measure sound improvement and put a number on it like twice as good, 1/3 as good etc. Many of the changes are subtle, most of them depend on the exact recording you're listening to, your personal preferences in how you like things to sound, and all of your gear (ok well not cables). There is also the comfort issue with headphones that you don't have with speakers. I find Audeze cans among the most comfortable I have, despite the fact they're extremely heavy. Many people say the Sennheiser HD 800 is the most comfortable pair of headphones they ever tried, mine hurt my head. If at all possible, listen to all of the cans under consideration using recordings you know. It takes a while to hear what the headphone is saying. Many times years later we still discover some nuance or aspect we didn't know about before.

Thanks for the reply. I definitely am going to listen to the headphones I listed above. When talking about (portable) headphone amps, is there anything you would recommend in relation to a LCD3 or any other headphone in this price range? I'm thinking of listening to a Chord Hugo2 and the new micro iDSD Signature by iFi audio.

Anyone else has additional tips?

Best regards,
Teun

 

[gimmeheadroom]

Thanks for the reply. I definitely am going to listen to the headphones I listed above. When talking about (portable) headphone amps, is there anything you would recommend in relation to a LCD3 or any other headphone in this price range? I'm thinking of listening to a Chord Hugo2 and the new micro iDSD Signature by iFi audio.

Anyone else has additional tips?

Best regards,
Teun

I don't use portable equipment except when I travel. Fullsize headphones work best with desktop or rack components.

 

[tesarpa]

And how about to use Hegel’s speaker terminals to drive hungry headphones? There is a separate thread on this site about this. I feel there is a danger of burning headphone drivers, but it should work, when you are careful.
On topic, I’d recommend to purchase the best headphones you can afford. Decent amplification is not expensive and you can decide later, if Hegel’s headphone output is not good enough.

 

[Roseval]

I feel there is a danger of burning headphone drivers, but it should work, when you are careful.

Let's take the output of a headphone amp e.g. JDS LAB Atom: Max Output @ 32Ω - 1 Watt (5.66 VRMS)
The Hegel 190: 150 W into 8 Ω !
Indeed to connect a headphone to speaker terminals is a excellent recipe to fry them.

 

[rmsanger]

I have the Hegel H160 driving a set of Maggie LRS and love the combo!

My plan is to get these to drive my 1266 Phi TC from speaker taps of the H160 so we'll see how it goes. I also plan to get an HE6se v2 at some point to pair with it as well.

https://lqicables.com/collections/a...-pin-female-to-speaker-taps-banana-plugs-pins

Focal Clears are nice as are Verite Closed, Fostex TH-900 mk2 or 909s would be nice.

I also really want to demo the HP1 & HP2 which are the sister products to Kennerton Odin/Thekk/Gjallarhorn
https://www.underwoodhifi.com/products/lsa-hp-1

 

[gimmeheadroom]

And how about to use Hegel’s speaker terminals to drive hungry headphones? There is a separate thread on this site about this. I feel there is a danger of burning headphone drivers, but it should work, when you are careful.
On topic, I’d recommend to purchase the best headphones you can afford. Decent amplification is not expensive and you can decide later, if Hegel’s headphone output is not good enough.

None of the cans you listed are candidates for driving off the speaker taps. A classic example would be HE-6.

 

[Teunan87]

And how about to use Hegel’s speaker terminals to drive hungry headphones? There is a separate thread on this site about this. I feel there is a danger of burning headphone drivers, but it should work, when you are careful.
On topic, I’d recommend to purchase the best headphones you can afford. Decent amplification is not expensive and you can decide later, if Hegel’s headphone output is not good enough.

I think I'm not going for the speaker output option

 

[Roseval]

The only consensus in audio is probably that there is no consensus.
Common controversial subject are
Do wires have a sound signature
Do amps (when not clipping) sound different
The last years voices are rising stating that all DACs sound the same.

You won’t hear anybody saying that all speakers / headphones sound the same.
Small wonder as indeed they color as hell.
The translation of a electrical signal into variations in air pressure is still the most difficult one.
Obvious my advice is to get the headphone you really like.
Spend your money primary on the headphone part as this component will make the biggest difference.

10 years ago 500,- was considered expensive in the headphone world.
Today a 5000,- for a flagship model is considered “normal”.
It is hard to believe that is due to dramatic increase in quality.
Marketing is probably a far better explanation.
But somehow one get affected, if 5000,- is normal, 500 must be cheap junk.
So if you embark on your listening tour, try to avoid listening to price tags.

BTW: the Neve can be found here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/.../rupert-neve-rnhp-headphone-amp-review.12040/

 

[rmsanger]

I wouldn't rule out your speaker taps as that is the best output/portion of the Hegel amp... The headphone section is just meh so I'd advise to go with a dedicated HP amp if that is the case. I'd also suggest a better dac at some point as well as the integrated dac in the hegel is also meh... You buy the hegel for the amp stage + volume control + damping factor.

Here is an entire thread to powering HPs via speaker taps:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/speaker-amps-for-headphones.649107/page-224

 

[iFi audio]

None of the cans you listed are candidates for driving off the speaker taps. A classic example would be HE-6.

...or Susvaras, but in general cans not sensitive. Stereo amps work for them rather well though

 

[rmsanger]

...or Susvaras, but in general cans not sensitive. Stereo amps work for them rather well though

Yep If it were me I'd start with the HE6SEv2 listed on Adorama for $699 + LQI adapter + a switch and go directly into Hegel speaker taps:

https://www.adorama.com/hmhe6sev2.html?emailprice=t
https://lqicables.com/collections/a...-pin-female-to-speaker-taps-banana-plugs-pins
https://www.amazon.com/Speaker-Sele...Jacks,+Audiophile+Grade&qid=1607620428&sr=8-2

Since you already have the Hegel this would take advantage of the best it has to offer by giving it a HP that needs that kind of power plus keeping it convenient with switch so you don't always have to swap speaker cables and adapter for the rear.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

Well I don't know about the OP but buying anything outside EU is financially infeasable for us in Czech Republic. Taxes, fees, charges, penalties, ransom...

If not for that I would have the HE-6 and a lot more cans and gear than I do.

 

[iFi audio]

Yep If it were me I'd start with the HE6SEv2 listed on Adorama for $699 + LQI adapter + a switch and go directly into Hegel speaker taps:

Yup, this Hegel should get HE-6 going alright! Still I'd use this amp with speakers, but I assume that you already have some for it, right?