NEW! Fostex TH610 Premium Reference Closed-Back Headphones
Sep 28, 2016 at 5:15 PM Post #346 of 974
I guess the main course will be on Friday with all the listening impressions, measurement interpretations, speculations, comparative analysis and in the end I expect that Tyll might formulate a plan to mod/pad swap eveything away! :)
 
Sep 28, 2016 at 7:55 PM Post #347 of 974
I forgot to post this here, but a lot of third party Sennheiser connectors have the plastic bit slightly too short compared to the TH610 one, so it won't go in all the way (still works, but not a very secure fit, so the cable keeps popping off).
 
On most of my HD600 cables, I had to use a craft knife to make that plastic bit slightly longer (just a 0.5mm or so) and the fit is snug and secure on the TH610.
 
Also the orientation is reverse of Sennheiser (so the L/R logo on the connector should face inwards). Don't force it in and wreck the connector socket on the headphone side..
 
By the way I have TH600, TH500RP, TH-X00 and TH610, and the TH610 is by far my favourite.
 
Interesting thing to note is, TH-X00 sounded horrible at first, but it sort of became nice after leaving it for a few months (maybe the paint drying or something? Definitely not burn-in because I never used it). I sent my TH-X00 around a lot of people recently and they almost always said "hey now it's not as bad as it used to sound before").
 
On the other hand, TH610 sounded fantastic straight out of the box.
 

 

 
Sep 28, 2016 at 10:43 PM Post #349 of 974
  can you do a comparison with TH500RP ?

 
TH500RP is a troublesome one to comment on. Everyone thinks the cheaper T50RP is a great value for money planar magnetic headphones, and with the success Mr Speakers had with their dog mods, there was high hope that the TH500RP would sound magnificent, like a potential rival to the LCD2. However, I thought it was a bit of a let-down.
 
I found the main issue with TH500RP was the softened, artificially enriched, muddled mid-bass, which I believe is unnecessary. The tuning deviated from the studio-monitor like precision and clarity of T50RP, and ended up becoming somewhat mild, fluffy and casual, lacking in dynamics and power.
 
I have a feeling that Fostex may have listened too much to the casual user feedback, and tried to make the TH500RP sound "nice" by warming it up a bit and reducing the edginess. I found the treble and high mid still having that great transparency and linearity of the planar magnetic (without feeling too stiff and direct like Oppo), but the low mid felt like a vague ported subwoofer.
 
TH610 on the other hand feels a lot more direct and solid, with very wholesome low mid that makes every note substantial. The treble is not as crystal clear as the TH900, nor as thin and refined like TH500RP, but it does have a nice tone probably because of the wood cabinet. The bass in particular feels very well damped, so it has a nice initial kick, and doesn't echo around for a long time like TH500RP. 
 
Because the TH610's housing and driver is well damped, I like the fact that every frequency from high to low sound consistent and uniform (i.e. nothing funny going on). I think the stereo imaging is solid and it gives a nice forward spherical projection (though not like HD800 etc). In comparison TH500RP sounds a bit too flat and lack the sense of forward distance. It gives you one of those in-your-head sound, which is nice and gentle and refined but unexciting.
 
Overall I like the TH610 because it has that multi-purpose feeling where I don't feel anything particularly bad or wrong about it. The dynamics is solid and big, so it's perfect not just for music but movies and games etc. I really have no complaints as a good pair of closed headphones.
 
TH500RP was too specific and had many annoying weaknesses as much as it had strengths. It's probably good for certain kind of instrumental music (like baroque harpsichord or violin etc..?) but you really either love it or hate it.
 
Also FYI, TH-X00 had too much cabinet reverberation, which bloated the bass and artificially enhance the sense of imaging, kind of like 3D surround sound effect. It's good for making some lame recordings turn more exciting, though I got fed up with it after a while.
 
In the end, TH500RP (and also TH-X00) does have some merits, but they were certainly not perfect and I ended up not using them much in the long run (same reason why I didn't buy TH900). I felt like I was listening to the characters of the headphones itself, rather than the actual music. TH610 felt like Fostex really did their homework to tidy up the tuning and made a pair of headphones that works well, without doing anything particularly special.
 
Sep 28, 2016 at 11:46 PM Post #350 of 974
   
*snip*

 
Great comparisons there, thank you!    
 
I have the E-MU Teaks on the way.  I was looking at the 610, and almost pulled the trigger on them, but was hoping to save a few bucks with the Teaks.   Have you heard the Teaks, and do you think they match up to the 610s?
 
Thanks again
 
Sep 28, 2016 at 11:48 PM Post #351 of 974
Very nice analysis Sandalaudio.   I have owned the X00s and still own the 500RP and agree with your description of their sound signatures.
 
I was very disappointed with the X00s which sounded boomy, bloated.  I have heard that burn in really benefits the X00 but I just put them back in the box and sold them.  Sad cause such a pretty phone. 
 
the 500rp just sounded dull to me.  I am older with some mild HF hearing loss, and I am sure that did not help.    I am a fan of the 40-50rp line, and the 610 is by far the best foxtex I have heard.  Very interested to hear Tyll's take. 
 
Sep 29, 2016 at 12:56 AM Post #352 of 974
   
Great comparisons there, thank you!    
 
I have the E-MU Teaks on the way.  I was looking at the 610, and almost pulled the trigger on them, but was hoping to save a few bucks with the Teaks.   Have you heard the Teaks, and do you think they match up to the 610s?
 
Thanks again

 
No I haven't listened to the Teaks. I would love to hear it but nobody around me bought it. I was not very happy with how the wood and paint finish looked like on my TH-X00, so I didn't buy the Teak just for the sake of visual beauty in case I get disappointed again.
 
I was not even very keen on buying the TH610 to begin with, but I changed my mind after a casual demo. After that I kept going back to it several times to find any obvious flaws (to find a reason not to buy it), but I was defeated in the end and bought it.
 
I always thought the main difference in the sound signature between all these Fostex+OEMs were the wood housing tonal character, but when I look at Tyll's photos, there's quite a lot of difference on the driver itself (particularly the way the back end exhaust is baffled). I don't want to speculate too much, but maybe our perceived sense of what each "wood" sounds like is more to do with the mods Fostex has done to the driver itself..
 
Also, FYI I tried quite a lot of aftermarket HD600 cables on the TH610, balanced and unbalanced, but the stock Fostex one sounds pretty good.
 
Sep 29, 2016 at 1:19 AM Post #353 of 974
   
I always thought the main difference in the sound signature between all these Fostex+OEMs were the wood housing tonal character, but when I look at Tyll's photos, there's quite a lot of difference on the driver itself (particularly the way the back end exhaust is baffled). I don't want to speculate too much, but maybe our perceived sense of what each "wood" sounds like is more to do with the mods Fostex has done to the driver itself..
 

 
I was just looking at that...   http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/survey-foster-443742-variants-inside-photos
 
I've heard everything from there being different magnets, or baffle materials, or it has to do with cup material... maybe it's just dark magic.  I don't quite know what to make of it either.  Makes me wonder how similar all of these actually sound.  Are all of the differences just picking nits, or are there dramatic changes?   Hopefully I can find out at RMAF/CanJam in a week.
 
Sep 29, 2016 at 2:00 AM Post #354 of 974
  Are all of the differences just picking nits, or are there dramatic changes?   Hopefully I can find out at RMAF/CanJam in a week.

 
I thought Head-Fi is all about picking nits... 
wink.gif

 
Seriously, they all do sound noticeably different from one another. I think they all have positive merits that make each one attractive to some people, but I always notice the negatives (certain traits or flaws) that characterizes the sound, which ends up being annoying after a while. It was just that TH610 had less of that compared to the previous Fostex models in my opinion.
 
Hope you get to compare them all at CanJam. Let us know your impressions.
 
Sep 29, 2016 at 10:54 AM Post #358 of 974
I was just looking at that...   http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/survey-foster-443742-variants-inside-photos

I've heard everything from there being different magnets, or baffle materials, or it has to do with cup material... maybe it's just dark magic.  I don't quite know what to make of it either.  Makes me wonder how similar all of these actually sound.  Are all of the differences just picking nits, or are there dramatic changes?   Hopefully I can find out at RMAF/CanJam in a week.



From experience with working on the fostex biodyna drivers, they all have the same general tuning, same damping paper and layouth. The only real difference is the magnet. The TH900 is the only one with a deeper magnet chamber and stronger magnet while the Nighthawk has a th900 like driver with different damping paper and beveled back ports.

The th610 is the same design as the th600's driver but with different damping material, foam.

That's all there really is to it. The important parts, diaphragm, magnet design, baffle design are the same across all modelsb (minus nighthawk) but the th610 changed it a bit with different damping materials.



This is a driver I disassembled.

The only other difference I guess they could have done is change the resistance on the magnet circuit which I see no indication.


The rest of the sound comes from the over all design. Cups, pads, cup damping. Etc.
 
Sep 29, 2016 at 3:32 PM Post #359 of 974
Who would buy this for $600 when the fostex open back Planar Magnetic series is like $400?


Have you tried those planars and can come up with your impressons? :wink:
 

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