[FauDrei]

From my experience with A-GD products: If you can scrape the money for their TOTL product - just do it.
 
If huge, overweight, overbuilt class A SS gear is your thing, you will, very likely, be satisfied with whatever lower product level you choose... but then you'll start wondering something like: this product of mine is great VfM... and if they value this product that amount of money... what would, the difference that I've "saved" by not going to the higher level of their product, brought to the table? Is this difference really worth it? Can it really be that much better?
 
My experience says - it is worth it and it is much better.

 
Not that I dislike my headamp - on the contrary, I like it very, very much... but now I regret not going directly for Phoenix which, at the time, seemed absurd amount of money for an overkill dual mono headamp. After "snapping" and getting their (back then) TOTL DAC for an obscene amount that would caused me serious problems with She Who Must Be Obeyed if she'd ever found out how much that big black block of aluminum really costed... 

I was shocked when I realized that, even though it was and it still is, very expensive for me - this thing is even greater VfM! Easily the best piece of audio gear I've ever owned.
 
So, CyaN, if I'd be in your shoes, determined to get a Sabre DAC, and if the money thing would not be unsolvable showstopper - NFB-7 would be my decision. Unheard and unreviewed. This guy that we call KingWa (He [size=x-small]Qinghua in real name[/size]) has rare honesty in valuing his gear and if he estimates that NFB-7 is half K$ better than NFB-1 - this would surely be well spent half K$.
 
Yeah... You may call me a fanboy. Now, about solving my mistakes from the past... this new headamp of mine... hmmm... how about converting that C3 into "Super Phoenix"?

 

[Cya|\|]

Does he really say that it's half better than nfb1?

The biggest problem is that it won't fit in my armory. If only it was 3-4cm less wide...

 

[macrog]

I personally believe that Audio-gd gear gets to be better value as you move up the price range. I have no doubt that the NFB-7 is worth the extra over the NFB-1 in the same way that the Reference 7 is worth the extra over the reference 5 and the Reference 7 HE is well and truly worth the premium over the reference 7.  The power supply improvement from the nfb1 to the nfb7 would yield useful improvements by itself even without the improved chassis and inputs.
 
When my nfb-7 arrives I will compare it to my Reference 1 and reference 7 he and clearly if the nfb7 outperforms the reference 1 it will replace it in my reference headphone system.  Time will tell but I am expecting big things. Both the CD7 final and Reference 3 on my reference headphone system run 2 digital outputs simultaneously so I should be able to compare objectively.
 
It has only ever been my compromises that I have regretted never the excesses.
 
Macrog
 

 

[FauDrei]

...When my nfb-7 arrives I will compare it to my Reference 1 and reference 7 he...

Yes!

 

...It has only ever been my compromises that I have regretted never the excesses.

With A-GD - same here.

 

[tim3320070]

Quote:

I personally believe that Audio-gd gear gets to be better value as you move up the price range. I have no doubt that the NFB-7 is worth the extra over the NFB-1 in the same way that the Reference 7 is worth the extra over the reference 5 and the Reference 7 HE is well and truly worth the premium over the reference 7.  The power supply improvement from the nfb1 to the nfb7 would yield useful improvements by itself even without the improved chassis and inputs.
 
When my nfb-7 arrives I will compare it to my Reference 1 and reference 7 he and clearly if the nfb7 outperforms the reference 1 it will replace it in my reference headphone system.  Time will tell but I am expecting big things. Both the CD7 final and Reference 3 on my reference headphone system run 2 digital outputs simultaneously so I should be able to compare objectively.
 
It has only ever been my compromises that I have regretted never the excesses.
 
Macrog
 

I thought I had a lot of AGD gear, holy crap!

 

[haloxt]

I don't have the very top of the line or regenerative psu audio-gd stuff, but imo, the most important consideration is finding out what exactly you want out of your audio system. Not everybody wants a purist high fidelity sound, which is what audio-gd's higher end gear try to do. But I will admit higher fidelity is certainly closer than low-fidelity gear to how music is "supposed" to be listened to. Even if what you want is to get as much sound quality as possible with a limited budget, it would be best to try to think out as much as possible how much sound improvement you want, how much each and every component in a chain might cost, and how much more you would pay for a component above the rest of your gear just for the flexibility of future upgrading. For example, if you want to properly utilize a ref7HE and not just have it being way above the rest of your gear, you really ought to be considering a $7,500 total minimum budget for completing your audio chain. Imo, if you just go for a FUN/sparrow, there is little to worry about to decently utilize it and have an enjoyable sound.

 

[Jodet]

$850?   At that price he's facing steep competition from WYRED  and Eastern Electric (Morningstar Audio), two companies which do not require you to do business with China.   (Which, from personal experience can be a major PITA).   

 

[Dynobot]

Quote:

$850?   At that price he's facing steep competition from WYRED  and Eastern Electric (Morningstar Audio), two companies which do not require you to do business with China.   (Which, from personal experience can be a major PITA).   

 
 
 @ $850 W4S and EE have some majoy competition as AGD has a loyal and growing following with way above par products. 
 

 

[borrego]

Quote:

$850?   At that price he's facing steep competition from WYRED  and Eastern Electric (Morningstar Audio), two companies which do not require you to do business with China.   (Which, from personal experience can be a major PITA).   

Eastern Electric is a Hong Kong company and Hong Kong is part of China.
 
Even though I am a Hong Kong person, I just can't help but admitting the Audio-gd NFB1's analog section design is head and shoulder above the opamp+tube design of the Eastern Electric...

 

[Joaco]

Quote:

 I just can't help but admitting the Audio-gd NFB1's analog section design is head and shoulder above the opamp+tube design of the Eastern Electric...

Borrego, how´s this so? the EE DAC is my number 1 ranked to buy DAC right now. How is the NFB-1´s analog section better than the EE´s? Not having a tube would be a plus in terms of maintenance but the EE has had rave reviews in respect to its performance and mainly about its soundstage and dynamics which are important to me. Thanks

 

[FauDrei]

Not that it means anything without actual comparison but...
 
EE:

 
A-GD:

I agree with borrego on A-GD's discrete non-feedback output stage being in general better solution than EE's opamp output (NE5532 if I'm not mistaken), but IMO, even more important difference is in the PSU: A-GD has separate r-core transformers for analog and for digital while each rail has parallel regulation.
 
So, yes, A-GD "betters" EE on paper. Does this translate into real implementation advantage? Only direct comparison and/or personal preferences can give an answer to that.
 
And BTW Jodet, you can get A-GD gear from Pacific Valve - A-GD's Illinois based official US importer.

 

[Pricklely Peete]

PSU quality is critical WRT DAC performance as is the utmost attention paid to the all important analog stages. The fact that A-gd is using current domain manipulation (vs V based ) using matched discrete components with NO negative feedback is major leap in tech and SQ over the old way or should I say the easy way of doing things. There are loads of factors that affect a DAC's ability but mainly it's the level of PSU quality , the layout and the analog stages. Regal has been saying the A-gd (DAC) analog stages are the best in the world. I can't say I disagree with that.
 
The EE looks like a myriad of other DACs being produced over the last 15 years...all of them using a very similar bog standard OTSEA (off the shelf engineering approach). To my eyes the EE has a woefully inadequate PSU and merely ordinary analog output stage.
 
IMO  of course.
 
Peete.

 

[middachten]

Quote:

 
It has only ever been my compromises that I have regretted never the excesses.

Great statement, almost poetical!

 

[middachten]

 
Quote:

PSU quality is critical WRT DAC performance as is the utmost attention paid to the all important analog stages. 

 
I fully agree with you. I've made a few DAC designs myself in the past (15 years ago) and based it on OTSEA. Just using the application notes of the dac supplier (Burr Brown PCM64 and Crystal CS4328 and CS4303) as a starting point. The just focussing on the analog output stage and power supplies. 
One of the best examples of this was the notoriously difficult to handle CS4303. My initial tests where done with the test board from the manufacturer. Just replacing the OpAmps for AD845 and connecting the board to the power supply of a dissasembled STAX CDP Quattro (all discrete regulators). I still have this test setup and it outperforms lots of commercial stuff out there. Even though the components are very outdated!

 

[realmassy]

 
Quote:

I agree with borrego on A-GD's discrete non-feedback output stage being in general better solution than EE's opamp output (NE5532 if I'm not mistaken), but IMO, even more important difference is in the PSU: A-GD has separate r-core transformers for analog and for digital while each rail has parallel regulation.
 
So, yes, A-GD "betters" EE on paper. Does this translate into real implementation advantage? Only direct comparison and/or personal preferences can give an answer to that.
 
And BTW Jodet, you can get A-GD gear from Pacific Valve - A-GD's Illinois based official US importer.

Thanks FauDrei.
The EE is on my short list, as I have not been entirely happy with the Ref.5. (thin sound, diffuse soundstage). As a temporary solution I'm currently using a Valab NOS, and though it's clearly technically inferior to the Ref.5 I enjoy it a lot.
I'm wondering if the EE and it's output tube can add some warmth and 'thickness' to the sound