[spritzer]

There is always cost cutting or you are going to end up with a player costing 500k$ and weighing a ton. There are also various safety and other standards that need to be met. The APL player is illegal in Europe and it could never be sold here as exposed tubes are a very big no,no.

Opamps aren't bad but they aren't good either and the APL way costs much, much more and is all done by hand. A transformer coupled tube output stage is very good choice as you can convert SE and differential on the fly.

 

[vcoheda]

how much are the modded esoteric units from APL - either the UX-1 or X-01?

 

[spritzer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif how much are the modded esoteric units from APL - either the UX-1 or X-01?

30k$ or more

 

[vcoheda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spritzer /img/forum/go_quote.gif 30k$ or more

each of these units is about $14K new. so the mods are more than the price of the unit. but if you are going to spend that much, why not just get the P03/D03. or are the modded units suppose to outperform even them.

 

[spritzer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif each of these units is about $14K new. so the mods are more than the price of the unit. but if you are going to spend that much, why not just get the P03/D03. or are the modded units suppose to outperform even them.

They are supposed to be the best there is and that includes the P-01/D-01. They are building a new player since they only use the transport, chassis and the transformers. much better clock, dac, PSU and output.

 

[HiWire]

To me, it sounds like Esoteric is implicitly favoring a single-ended design. The balanced output is purely an afterthought to satisfy marketing. I'm glad to know about this, though, since I'd be pretty disappointed if I were a fan of fully-balanced designs. Too much complexity, in my opinion.

Captain Obvious

 

[vcoheda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spritzer /img/forum/go_quote.gif They are supposed to be the best there is and that includes the P-01/D-01. They are building a new player since they only use the transport, chassis and the transformers. much better clock, dac, PSU and output.

i see. that is impressive. but i'll never have that kind of money to spend on audio. damn! why can't i be a trust fund baby.

 

[spritzer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HiWire /img/forum/go_quote.gif To me, it sounds like Esoteric is implicitly favoring a single-ended design. The balanced output is purely an afterthought to satisfy marketing. I'm glad to know about this, though, since I'd be pretty disappointed if I were a fan of fully-balanced designs. Too much complexity, in my opinion. Captain Obvious

A lot of manufacturers do this but some do it properly with transformers, I know Sony did back when it stood for quality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif i see. that is impressive. but i'll never have that kind of money to spend on audio. damn! why can't i be a trust fund baby.

Amen on that though I could sell some of my headphones to pay for it I'd never do it.

 

[Jon L]

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkpowder /img/forum/go_quote.gif ditch the D-05 and upgrade to a D-03 whilst still keeping the stellar transport. Also, 2 boxes > 1 box j/k

I don't know if one can assume D-03 will be an "upgrade" over D-05 yet. The most interesting thing about D-05 is the use of brand-new AKM AK4397 DAC chips vs. D-03's AD1955 DAC chips. Direct A-B testing *may* yield interesting results.

To me, $14K is just way too much money to spend on ANY source. However, picking up just the D-05 on Agon in a year or two for much less than the $7K retail is an option. And IF the D-05's i.Link digital audio output will work with Pioneer universal players' i.Link, picking up a Pioneer to use as CD/SACD/DVD-A transport to D-05 might be VERY intersting indeed. (anyone tried?) In fact, has anyone tried foobar/computer->firewire->Esoteric i.Link?

 

[milkpowder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon L /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't know if one can assume D-03 will be an "upgrade" over D-05 yet. The most interesting thing about D-05 is the use of brand-new AKM AK4397 DAC chips vs. D-03's AD1955 DAC chips. Direct A-B testing *may* yield interesting results.

I realise this. There must be a catch somewhere or Esoteric has somehow "disabled" the D-05 to sound "worse" than the D-03 despite the seemingly groundbreaking/superior 32-bit chips. Bear in mind the D-03 itself costs around about the same cash as the P-05/D-05! I also read that the VRDS transport in the P-05 is Esoteric's very best and is also found in the P-01. This only compounds my confusion. I have no idea how to verify this but I know some people out there have a good understanding of the various different VRDS mechanisms. Maybe they could chime in.

 

[spritzer]

The dac is only a small part of the equation. There is a reason why some of the very old dacs still sound great even if they are "outdated".

 

[Jon L]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spritzer /img/forum/go_quote.gif The dac is only a small part of the equation. There is a reason why some of the very old dacs still sound great even if they are "outdated".

I kind of used to think so, too. I still think the PS and analogue output stage is much more important than the DAC chip; however, if all is kept equal, there is simply more resolution available via latest chips.

An old chip like TDA15xx *can* be made to sound very, very good overall with outstanding PS/output, but even the double crown versions are really hitting less than even 16 bit resolution.

In addition, let's not forget that these latest DAC's can decode DVD-A/DAD and SACD!!

 

[HiWire]

It's possible that Esoteric has decided to sell 1,000 units of D-05/P-05 boxes rather than 50 of the D-03/P-03... the desire for profitability rules most corporations. At some point, the development and manufacturing costs can outweigh the size of the market for such megabuck players. They could phase out the '03 combo at will, depending on demand. I hardly think that they're flying off the shelves at those prices.

 

[insomniac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icarium /img/forum/go_quote.gif What bothers me the most is that the balanced output is actually just single ended split with opamps :/ Which is sad panda in a top notch player.

Are all of the recent Esoteric players like this?

 

[spritzer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon L /img/forum/go_quote.gif I kind of used to think so, too. I still think the PS and analogue output stage is much more important than the DAC chip; however, if all is kept equal, there is simply more resolution available via latest chips. An old chip like TDA15xx *can* be made to sound very, very good overall with outstanding PS/output, but even the double crown versions are really hitting less than even 16 bit resolution. In addition, let's not forget that these latest DAC's can decode DVD-A/DAD and SACD!!

A better does help quite a bit but it is not the magical bullet the hi-fi press wants to believe. The EMM labs stuff is a good example, great digital side but a bad output stage coupled to a horrible psu.

The need for higher bitrate and resolution has helped CD to no end pushing it even further then what LP's can do.