New denafrips DDC (Iris and Gaia)

[richardloh]

Blue Jeans Cable

Hi Mordicai,

Yes .. great vfm cable that I had used especially digital ones from Canare, Mogami etc. for pro audio but only if still with my 25 yr old audiolab equipment worth sgd1-2k.

Cheers.

Richard

 

[jazzbug]

Thx Richard, and yes I'm totally with you

 

[richardloh]

Hi,

For those having gaia and avatar and certainly should daisy chain them to T+, please find below required 75 ohm parts (2 dual bnc and 1 load resistors) in additional to 3 bnc clock cables that I found sounding better that your usd1-2 cheap ones:

https://sg.rs-online.com/web/p/coaxial-adapters/1120830/

https://sg.rs-online.com/web/p/rf-terminators/7009316/

Cheers.

Richard

PS: dual T adaptor not preferred due to limit in between space behind equipment

 

[BlakeT]

Just a quick interim report:

Context: Gaia connected to Terminator Plus via i2s via both HDMI and Ethernet (RJ45), with the clock out feature of the Terminator Plus engaged. Speaker setup used for the evaluation.

Ethernet: Alternating between the Sablon 2020 Panatela Ethernet and prior model Sablon Panatela Ethernet.
HDMI: Tubulus Argentus

Both the ethernet and HDMI cables are attached, so I can quickly switch between ethernet input and HDMI input with the click of the input button on the Terminator Plus while the song is playing, allowing for easy A/B testing.

Song: I am listening to all my usual demo tracks but in particular this evening I am using "In Strange Company He Spoke Softly" by MATstudio. This is a great song for demo purposes as it is fairly sparse music with incredible amounts of hyper detail and sound staging elements. It makes it easy to focus on individual sonic aspects. I like this music, it may not be your cup of tea, but nonetheless, the song is a great evaluation tool.

When I am using HDMI, it is i2s via LVDS, and when ethernet is used it is i2s via LVCMOS. I understand LVDS is viewed by some as a technically "on paper" better solution.

HDMI: As compared to ethernet connections, the sound is relatively more dense, a bit more organic- it emphasizes tone and timbre. There is more presence on vocal tracks. It imposes a layer of "beautification" and is very pleasing.

RJ45 Ethernet: As compared to the HDMI connection, the ethernet connection has more clarity and superior precision with instrumental layering, and more crispy and speedy transients. The very subtle musical details are more apparent. Ethernet here is comparatively less "organic" sounding. It is more raw sounding, without the "beautification" of the HDMI connection. I think I am finding I prefer this connection method, but could very easily live with and be happy with HDMI. If I listened to different types of music (acoustic, jazz, classical etc(., I would probably prefer HDMI. I am tempted to use both.

The comments above are just relative to each other. So for example, the HDMI is very transparent and clear, just less so than the Ethernet, and Ethernet is also organic sounding, just less so than HDMI.

The sonic differences above are most certainly a result of multiple factors, namely, the cables used, the Gaia and Terminator Plus themselves, and probably LVDS vs. LVCMOS.

The differences are not at all subtle and the very easy and quick A/B with just the push of the button allowed the differences to really jump out. I could see people strongly preferring one over the other based upon personal preferences, music and equipment. I was very surprised the differences were so noticeable.

Having had this experience, I am now thinking that having multiple output options of the Gaia is a terrific thing particularly if someone has a DAC with lots of connection options, as each connection type differs in sound.

P.S. Forgot to mention- I am far enough into my evaluation process to definitively state that Gaia+Terminator Plus is unquestionably superior to usb straight in to Terminator Plus (no Gaia).

 

[richardloh]

Just a quick interim report:

Context: Gaia connected to Terminator Plus via i2s via both HDMI and Ethernet (RJ45), with the clock out feature of the Terminator Plus engaged. Speaker setup used for the evaluation.

Ethernet: Alternating between the Sablon 2020 Panatela Ethernet and prior model Sablon Panatela Ethernet.
HDMI: Tubulus Argentus

Both the ethernet and HDMI cables are attached, so I can quickly switch between ethernet input and HDMI input with the click of the input button on the Terminator Plus while the song is playing, allowing for easy A/B testing.

Song: I am listening to all my usual demo tracks but in particular this evening I am using "In Strange Company He Spoke Softly" by MATstudio. This is a great song for demo purposes as it is fairly sparse music with incredible amounts of hyper detail and sound staging elements. It makes it easy to focus on individual sonic aspects. I like this music, it may not be your cup of tea, but nonetheless, the song is a great evaluation tool.

When I am using HDMI, it is i2s via LVDS, and when ethernet is used it is i2s via LVCMOS. I understand LVDS is viewed by some as a technically "on paper" better solution.

HDMI: As compared to ethernet connections, the sound is relatively more dense, a bit more organic- it emphasizes tone and timbre. There is more presence on vocal tracks. It imposes a layer of "beautification" and is very pleasing.

RJ45 Ethernet: As compared to the HDMI connection, the ethernet connection has more clarity and superior precision with instrumental layering, and more crispy and speedy transients. The very subtle musical details are more apparent. Ethernet here is comparatively less "organic" sounding. It is more raw sounding, without the "beautification" of the HDMI connection. I am finding I prefer this connection method, but could very easily live with and be happy with HDMI.

The comments above are just relative to each other. So for example, the HDMI is very transparent and clear, just less so than the Ethernet, and Ethernet is also organic sounding, just less so than HDMI.

The sonic differences above are most certainly a result of multiple factors, namely, the cables used, the Gaia and Terminator Plus themselves, and probably LVDS vs. LVCMOS.

The differences are not at all subtle and the very easy and quick A/B with just the push of the button allowed the differences to really jump out. I could see people strongly preferring one over the other based upon personal preferences, music and equipment. I was very surprised the differences were so noticeable.

Having had this experience, I am now thinking that having multiple output options of the Gaia is a terrific thing particularly if someone has a DAC with lots of connection options, as each connection type differs in sound.

P.S. Forgot to mention- I am far enough into my evaluation process to definitively state that Gaia+Terminator Plus is unquestionably superior to usb straight in to Terminator Plus (no Gaia).

Hi Blake,

Nice share and writeup

On the hdmi i2s vs rj45 i2s connection, I plays from my Avatar which sounds just as good to via rj45 i2s with cheap china ofc rj45 cable vs >10x more costly Argentus via hdmi i2s but the Avator's rj45 i2s is lvds and yes, individual preference applies.

I can relate but did not describe as well as you had done so on the somehow smoothen out sound of hdmi i2s via the Argentus even in my comparison to cheap china ofc rj45 i2s ... guess only way if someone with also Argentus rj45 i2s cable to compare since Sablon rj45 i2s used by you and lvcmos as I do not plan to spend more in addition to the Argentus hdmi i2s cable ordered.

On usb via gaia to T+ or directly to T+, I find that my allo usb bridge signature (and aes/ebu from my Bel Canto fm tuner) also obviously improved in sound quality but not so for the Antipodes EX. What is your usb source(s) being used ??

My thinking is that beyond a certain level of usb source (and maybe aes/ebu etc.), having gaia in the chain may not yield any improvement or there is somehow mismatch of Antipodes usb source to this chain.

Just an added note, Antipodes advises against any further usb processing and claims that more is less for their products and I do like that they even advise against assuming the benefits of commonly preferred upsampling with specific description per attachment.

Cheers.

Richard

 

[BlakeT]

One quick follow up here- If there are any Gaia/Terminator Plus users reading this thread, please note that if you want to use Ethernet to connect Gaia to TPlus, the RJ45 ethernet cable must be very short (Alvin says 30 cm or less), or you may encounter noise/EMI problems, which reveal as static like noise similar to dirty vinyl records when music is not playing (when music is playing the noise completely disappears). That happened to me using a 1-meter ethernet cable.

The above is due to LVCMOS vs LVDS. Ethernet for connecting Gaia to TPlus is LVCMOS, so short cables must be used to avoid noise problems.

HDMI connecting Gaia to TPlus is LVDS and does not have any noise problems with longer cable lengths.

 

[jazzbug]

Hi Blake,

Nice share and writeup

On the hdmi i2s vs rj45 i2s connection, I plays from my Avatar which sounds just as good to via rj45 i2s with cheap china ofc rj45 cable vs >10x more costly Argentus via hdmi i2s but the Avator's rj45 i2s is lvds and yes, individual preference applies.

I can relate but did not describe as well as you had done so on the somehow smoothen out sound of hdmi i2s via the Argentus even in my comparison to cheap china ofc rj45 i2s ... guess only way if someone with also Argentus rj45 i2s cable to compare since Sablon rj45 i2s used by you and lvcmos as I do not plan to spend more in addition to the Argentus hdmi i2s cable ordered.

On usb via gaia to T+ or directly to T+, I find that my allo usb bridge signature (and aes/ebu from my Bel Canto fm tuner) also obviously improved in sound quality but not so for the Antipodes EX. What is your usb source(s) being used ??

My thinking is that beyond a certain level of usb source (and maybe aes/ebu etc.), having gaia in the chain may not yield any improvement or there is somehow mismatch of Antipodes usb source to this chain.

Just an added note, Antipodes advises against any further usb processing and claims that more is less for their products and I do like that they even advise against assuming the benefits of commonly preferred upsampling with specific description per attachment.

Cheers.

Richard

Hi Blake, Hi Richard,
Thanks for the info, it seems both of you use Tubulus Argentus i2S cable. It might be off the topic, I'm debating from Tubulus Argentus, VAL or Phasure HDMI cable.
I read some review comparison between Tubulus vs VAL, seems Tubulus is more full body with low end but lack of air.
If you would share your impression of Tubulus please?
Thx
Jazz

 

[richardloh]

Hi Blake, Hi Richard,
Thanks for the info, it seems both of you use Tubulus Argentus i2S cable. It might be off the topic, I'm debating from Tubulus Argentus, VAL or Phasure HDMI cable.
I read some review comparison between Tubulus vs VAL, seems Tubulus is more full body with low end but lack of air.
If you would share your impression of Tubulus please?
Thx
Jazz

Hi Jazz,

Unfortunately I do not have VAL and Phasure to compare but I had the cheaply Pangea and the then loaned Argentus to find out that the latter is more detailed and organic sounding in MY system .. at almost x10 the $ though and just picked it up from the same friend last nite who loaned his as he had 10% discount as returning customer.

I do not find it lacking in air nor with especially more prominent low end but I am a firmed believer that cablings are highly system dependent and it will be hard to know how it will sound in your system until you have it. Nevertheless, I do prefer silver or better silver-gold cables if done well but they are usually more expensive.

Sorry for primarily useless share but guess it is not too crazily priced at sgd708 after 10% discount with shipping and without local 7% gst but is max of what I would want to pay for cabling ... the improvement from pangea is nowhere near from recent standard to T+ nor adding gaia with the exception of Antipodes EX which I connect directly to the T+.

Btw, I am using cheaply china made ofc rj45 is2 cables from the Avatar to T+ which sounded just as good as the Argentus hdmi i2s cable and have no urge to get the Argentus rj45 i2s cable especially since least play time of the Avatar. I am also also using equally cheap but well spec'ed pro audio canare d5.5uhdc01e bnc clock cables but invested much more in analog cables of vintage top-of-the line nordost fil interconnects and very expensive cardas clear speaker cables with its jumpers to my salon 2 speakers

Cheers.

Richard

 

[jazzbug]

Hi Jazz,

Unfortunately I do not have VAL and Phasure to compare but I had the cheaply Pangea and the then loaned Argentus to find out that the latter is more detailed and organic sounding in MY system .. at almost x10 the $ though and just picked it up from the same friend last nite who loaned his as he had 10% discount as returning customer.

I do not find it lacking in air nor with especially more prominent low end but I am a firmed believer that cablings are highly system dependent and it will be hard to know how it will sound in your system until you have it. Nevertheless, I do prefer silver or better silver-gold cables if done well but they are usually more expensive.

Sorry for primarily useless share but guess it is not too crazily priced at sgd708 after 10% discount with shipping and without local 7% gst but is max of what I would want to pay for cabling ... the improvement from pangea is nowhere near from recent standard to T+ nor adding gaia with the exception of Antipodes EX which I connect directly to the T+.

Btw, I am using cheaply china made ofc rj45 is2 cables from the Avatar to T+ which sounded just as good as the Argentus hdmi i2s cable and have no urge to get the Argentus rj45 i2s cable especially since least play time of the Avatar. I am also also using equally cheap but well spec'ed pro audio canare d5.5uhdc01e bnc clock cables but invested much more in analog cables of vintage top-of-the line nordost fil interconnects and very expensive cardas clear speaker cables with its jumpers to my salon 2 speakers

Cheers.

Richard

 

[BlakeT]

Edited:

Hi @jazzbug

I have not heard the Phasure or VAL so unfortunately I wouldn't be able to compare. What is the "VAL" cable? Did you mean RAL (Revelation Audio Labs)?

The other factor is, the Tubulus Argentus is the only high quality HDMI I have ever owned (I bought an Audioquest HDMI on Ebay once, which turned out to be a fake).

I definitely agree the Argentus is very full-bodied. In terms of air, the Sablon ethernet had more. To be clear though, the high frequencies are present on Argentus- they are not rolled off. Sometimes air means different things to different people so I didn't want this construed as rolled off. I view air in terms of spaciousness/sound stage/clarity. The very subtle micro details are more audible with Sablon ethernet. Of course, that doesn't help you very much. I may try a few more HDMI cables (perhaps Crystal Cable, Purist Audio Design and possibly RAL- I have a custom RAL Passage umbilical DC cable that the owner made for me that is very good).

 

[Roasty]

Edited:

Hi @jazzbug

I have not heard the Phasure or VAL so unfortunately I wouldn't be able to compare. What is the "VAL" cable? Did you mean RAL (Revelation Audio Labs)?

The other factor is, the Tubulus Argentus is the only high quality HDMI I have ever owned (I bought an Audioquest HDMI on Ebay once, which turned out to be a fake).

I definitely agree the Argentus is very full-bodied. In terms of air, the Sablon ethernet had more. To be clear though, the high frequencies are present on Argentus- they are not rolled off. Sometimes air means different things to different people so I didn't want this construed as rolled off. I view air in terms of spaciousness/sound stage/clarity. The very subtle micro details are more audible with Sablon ethernet. Of course, that doesn't help you very much. I may try a few more HDMI cables (perhaps Crystal Cable, Purist Audio Design and possibly RAL- I have a custom RAL Passage umbilical DC cable that the owner made for me that is very good).

Is the tubulus cable really as stiff as previously mentioned? Could it do a tight bend to connect two components stacked on each other?

I'm trying to look for a suitable hdmi i2s cable to compare with the phasure hdmi^2.

 

[BlakeT]

Is the tubulus cable really as stiff as previously mentioned? Could it do a tight bend to connect two components stacked on each other?

I'm trying to look for a suitable hdmi i2s cable to compare with the phasure hdmi^2.

The Argentus is beefy, but it can do a bend no problem. Mine is doing a "U". Prior to purchasing the cable I asked the manufacturer whether it was safe to bend the cable and they said it is not a problem. The cable is quite flexible.

 

[BlakeT]

I just ordered a Revelation Audio Labs HDMI to see how it compares to the Tubulus Argentus. Hopefully I won't have any delivery delay issues, but I am planning on it taking a while to arrive.

 

[Roasty]

The Argentus is beefy, but it can do a bend no problem. Mine is doing a "U". Prior to purchasing the cable I asked the manufacturer whether it was safe to bend the cable and they said it is not a problem. The cable is quite flexible.

That's good to hear. Thanks man. Will await your RAL cable impressions.

 

[jazzbug]

I just ordered a Revelation Audio Labs HDMI to see how it compares to the Tubulus Argentus. Hopefully I won't have any delivery delay issues, but I am planning on it taking a while to arrive.

Yes Blake, its RAL.
Thanks for the info and good to learn from your experience.
I'm lucky to hold on the purchase now, can't wait for your comparison