[HighResMan]

Should have mentioned this earlier... UI is fast and responsive. AK320's UI feels really sluggish. Simple scrolling takes forever and there is a "play" between where the finger is and what's scrolling under finger. I don't understand what's all that hype about.

 

[noplsestar]

Yes it's quite short. 5 ~ 8 hours depending on the file, and how long you leave the screen turned on.

I think one of the big contributions to this is the fact that Plenue S uses PCM1792A DAC chip.
This chip was originally intended for mains powered audio gear (like high-end CD players), so the power draw is enormous.

PCM1792A specs sheet says
44.1 kHz = 205 mW
96 kHz = 250 mW
192 kHz = 335 mW

That's a pretty hefty power draw, and you can see it goes up as you play high res files. Similarly with Astell & Kern AK240 using Cirrus Logic CS4398 (in dual!), which is ancient and draws around 240 mW.

Just as a comparison, the new AKM4490EQ (used on AK380 etc) only uses 145mW, ESS ES9018S around 100mW.
Lower grade DAC chips like AKM 4452 is 50 mW, ESS ES9018K2M (used on countless DAPs like DP-X1) is 40mW.

There are other factors involved but you can see why DAP makers want to move on to new generation chips that are more efficient (and a lot cheaper to buy compared to PCM1792A).
Also the PCM1792A needs an extra I/V stage opamp that is not needed on modern DAC chips like ESS and AKM.

It does add up to a fair bit since headphone amp only needs to draw power as it's needed, but DAC and I/V opamp has to be running all the time.
Maybe we should treat it like a final breath of fossil fuel guzzling monster, while other companies all moved to the eco friendly happy land. :evil:  

Ok, the PCM1792A needs more power, but is it "better" concerning sound quality than the others you mentioned? Because if it is I don't care if I have less playtime. Sound is all that matters for me here.

 

[warrior1975]

After much debating, I think this will be my next player. It's been between this and the AK380cu. I think I'll enjoy the sound signature on this a lot better.

 

[Sound Eq]

After much debating, I think this will be my next player. It's been between this and the AK380cu. I think I'll enjoy the sound signature on this a lot better.

i think the plenue s is safer choice for you, as the cowon d which is a fraction of the cost is amazing so their flagship must be much much better

 

[lgreen666]

  So I settled on Cowon Plenue S after trying a number of DAPs including ZX2, AK300, AK320, ARM2 and MoJo (with iPhone 6S). My previous PS was apparently faulty so I decided to give it a try to other DAPs, however I concluded that PS was way above the abilities of the rest of these and decided to buy it again. I'm lucky to have received a good quality unit this time and couldn't be happier than I am now!
 
PS drives my LCD-3 with ease and I don't feel the necessity to buy an external amplifier. So this saves some money. This is absolutely a winning combination that worked for me very well.
 
My quick impressions:
- Excellent soundstage
- Excellent instrument separation
- Clean and clear sound
- Great dynamics
- Extremely musical sounding and not being overly analytical
- Jet Effects is unbelievable, this is an absolutely killer feature
- I don't miss that analogue sound anymore - no digital harshness there
- Excellent amplification
 
It seems there is lot of love for other brands on this forum (from "thread count") and this gem seems to be getting ignored... hence thought of sharing my impressions
 
I would highly recommend PS over all DAPs I have mentioned above by good margin.
 
Look forward to learn more from this community.
 
I'd be keen to hear some recommendations for headphone stand for my LCD3s.. not planning to spend crazy money on a stand though, functionality is more important than aesthetics
 
Cheers!

an excellent and perceptive overview!

 

[sandalaudio]

Ok, the PCM1792A needs more power, but is it "better" concerning sound quality than the others you mentioned? Because if it is I don't care if I have less playtime. Sound is all that matters for me here.

 
I think anyone who is stupid enough to buy something as expensive as Plenue S (myself included) would have decided to buy it based on the sound quality... 

 
The first time I listened to the old Plenue 1, I had no idea what it was or how much it cost, but comparing all the DAPs at the shop, I said "Hey this one sounds really good!".
 
 
We can't rank DAPs based on DAC chips alone, since there are many other factors that build up the whole package, but one thing for sure is that the modern DAC chips (like AKM, ESS etc) all tend to be a very nice designer-friendly self-sufficient package with good power supply noise suppression, built-in I/V amp, etc. So it's becoming much easier for DAP makers to achieve a good measured specs. Some modern chips even have a strong headphone amp circuit built into the DAC chip.
 
Compared to those, the good old PCM1792A has a bit more freedom as a designer to figure out how to build everything around it to make it sound good, which requires more effort and can be a hit and miss. DAC chip doesn't necessarily decide how a DAP sounds, but it is a big factor, since many companies simply follow the "recommended" surrounding circuit design that is written on the DAC chip datasheet.

 

[harmonix]

I think anyone who is stupid enough to buy something as expensive as Plenue S (myself included) would have decided to buy it based on the sound quality... 

The first time I listened to the old Plenue 1, I had no idea what it was or how much it cost, but comparing all the DAPs at the shop, I said "Hey this one sounds really good!".


We can't rank DAPs based on DAC chips alone, since there are many other factors that build up the whole package, but one thing for sure is that the modern DAC chips (like AKM, ESS etc) all tend to be a very nice designer-friendly self-sufficient package with good power supply noise suppression, built-in I/V amp, etc. So it's becoming much easier for DAP makers to achieve a good measured specs. Some modern chips even have a strong headphone amp circuit built into the DAC chip.

Compared to those, the good old PCM1792A has a bit more freedom as a designer to figure out how to build everything around it to make it sound good, which requires more effort and can be a hit and miss. DAC chip doesn't necessarily decide how a DAP sounds, but it is a big factor, since many companies simply follow the "recommended" surrounding circuit design that is written on the DAC chip datasheet.

Modern daps all pretty much use off the shelf chip sets. Good is that there alot more daps in the market. Bad is that there alot more daps in the market that sound bleh....

Love the S and don't regret it. Almost pulled the trigger on the ak380 a few times before the s came along. Every time I pulled back asking what am I buying thats worth this money.... used to big rig digital gear (not desktop) so price doesnt scare me but again what are we getting for that $$$? I can get a meitner Ma-1 for the same price. GIVE ME A BREAK AK380 VS MA-1 hahahah

 

[warrior1975]

harmonix have you heard the 380 yet? If so, how does it compare to the S?

 

[sandalaudio]

Modern daps all pretty much use off the shelf chip sets. Good is that there alot more daps in the market. Bad is that there alot more daps in the market that sound bleh....

Love the S and don't regret it. Almost pulled the trigger on the ak380 a few times before the s came along. Every time I pulled back asking what am I buying thats worth this money.... used to big rig digital gear (not desktop) so price doesnt scare me but again what are we getting for that $$$? I can get a meitner Ma-1 for the same price. GIVE ME A BREAK AK380 VS MA-1 hahahah

 
I also considered the AK380 (since I used AK240 before the Plenue S), and although it was very good, I couldn't justify the price.
One major drawback of AK380 was that the output power remained unchanged from the AK240, with the same maximum voltage limit and the current restriction.
I didn't want to end up like on AK240 where I always had to carry around a portable amp (like Mojo or micro iDSD) in case I have to use a too low impedance IEM or too low sensitivity headphones. I guess they have the docking amp for that now..
The sound was great though.
 
 
Regarding the comparison of DAPs to bigger hi-fi gear, I've always had a belief that the people who buy these expensive DAPs must have had substantial investment and experience on home gear, but more and more I begin to realize that for a lot of new people these DAPs are the first thing that they get into the high end audio market (after reading tech magazines where AK is promoted).
 
They never had any listening experience on substantial speaker based setup, never been to Hi-Fi shows, nor visited Hi-Fi shops, and never have the intention to even try it. That doesn't mean they are poor, so they are prepared to buy the Plenue S or AK380 or whatever is out there. They are simply not interested in anything other than DAPs and headphones.

 

[harmonix]

harmonix have you heard the 380 yet? If so, how does it compare to the S?

I have heard the 380 many times and as mentioned each time I was about to put the $ down I listened again and pulled back. Not so for the s.

The 380 high end sounds better (more sparkle). Typically I associate this with frequencies 4k and up. However if you are not a dog most of human music happens below that. The low and mid range is where the s excels and blows away the ak380. This is not to say the s high end is bad its good but as mentioned earlier there is so much going on below that you don't really care. Does thay make sense ?

 

[harmonix]

...Regarding the comparison of DAPs to bigger hi-fi gear, I've always had a belief that the people who buy these expensive DAPs must have had substantial investment and experience on home gear, but more and more I begin to realize that for a lot of new people these DAPs are the first thing that they get into the high end audio market (after reading tech magazines where AK is promoted).

They never had any listening experience on substantial speaker based setup, never been to Hi-Fi shows, nor visited Hi-Fi shops, and never have the intention to even try it. That doesn't mean they are poor, so they are prepared to buy the Plenue S or AK380 or whatever is out there. They are simply not interested in anything other than DAPs and headphones.

That would be my experience as well. Well heeled customers but many have not heard real high end before. Which is why I mentioned the Meitner MA1 dac as a comparison as they are close in price (ak380cu+cu amp) but not in performance imho. Not even bringing in the DAC2x as that is not in the same decimal range....

 

[noplsestar]

I also considered the AK380 (since I used AK240 before the Plenue S), and although it was very good, I couldn't justify the price.

One major drawback of AK380 was that the output power remained unchanged from the AK240, with the same maximum voltage limit and the current restriction.
I didn't want to end up like on AK240 where I always had to carry around a portable amp (like Mojo or micro iDSD) in case I have to use a too low impedance IEM or too low sensitivity headphones. I guess they have the docking amp for that now..
The sound was great though.


Regarding the comparison of DAPs to bigger hi-fi gear, I've always had a belief that the people who buy these expensive DAPs must have had substantial investment and experience on home gear, but more and more I begin to realize that for a lot of new people these DAPs are the first thing that they get into the high end audio market (after reading tech magazines where AK is promoted).

They never had any listening experience on substantial speaker based setup, never been to Hi-Fi shows, nor visited Hi-Fi shops, and never have the intention to even try it. That doesn't mean they are poor, so they are prepared to buy the Plenue S or AK380 or whatever is out there. They are simply not interested in anything other than DAPs and headphones.

You got me! I don't have the money for a good high end home setup. But I may afford it with a portable setup ... I said I "may" ... alas ... I have calyx m and pm-3, but would like to upgrade to Plenue S with MrSpeakers Ether C. I mostly listen when walking through the city. So this would be my dream pair. BUT THE MONEY!!!

 

[sandalaudio]

That would be my experience as well. Well heeled customers but many have not heard real high end before. Which is why I mentioned the Meitner MA1 dac as a comparison as they are close in price (ak380cu+cu amp) but not in performance imho. Not even bringing in the DAC2x as that is not in the same decimal range....

 

You got me! I don't have the money for a good high end home setup. But I may afford it with a portable setup ... I said I "may" ... alas ... I have calyx m and pm-3, but would like to upgrade to Plenue S with MrSpeakers Ether C. I mostly listen when walking through the city. So this would be my dream pair. BUT THE MONEY!!!

 
Plenue S is fantastic and I do use it much more often than I get the chance to turn on my home setup. In fact I'm slowly reducing my bigger audio gear to a bare minimal, because portables have moved on a long way and I don't get to be at home as often. I think these little DAPs are still pretty useful as a transport/line out DAC even if you plan to hook it up to some power amps and speakers at a friend's house etc. I did try comparing against dCS Debussy DAC a while ago and it was not outright defeat. Both enjoyable, just sounded different and good in their own ways. If you had one, you would want to buy the other.
 
AK380 is also great at what it does, provided you pair it with some headphones/earphones that work happily in its limited power range.
Ether C will struggle unless you use the AK AMP.
 
Then again, if you plan to walk around through the city with the Ether C on your head then people will think you are crazy.

 

[noplsestar]

Plenue S is fantastic and I do use it much more often than I get the chance to turn on my home setup. In fact I'm slowly reducing my bigger audio gear to a bare minimal, because portables have moved on a long way and I don't get to be at home as often. I think these little DAPs are still pretty useful as a transport/line out DAC even if you plan to hook it up to some power amps and speakers at a friend's house etc. I did try comparing against dCS Debussy DAC a while ago and it was not outright defeat. Both enjoyable, just sounded different and good in their own ways. If you had one, you would want to buy the other.

AK380 is also great at what it does, provided you pair it with some headphones/earphones that work happily in its limited power range.
Ether C will struggle unless you use the AK AMP.

Then again, if you plan to walk around through the city with the Ether C on your head then people will think you are crazy.

Good that I don't care what people think of me ... and buy the way: as an artist, my job is to be crazy

 

[warrior1975]

harmonix Thanks bro, made perfect sense what you said.