[Citizen Z]

Regardless the outcome, I highly commend you on your decision to buy a Mazda 3. I own a 2004 "S" 5 door and have loved every minute of it. I reccomend popping over to http://www.mazda3forums.net. It is the largest online Mazda3 community with TONS of information on the Mazda3, how to guides in case you ever decide to modify your ride (turbo!) or look up preventative maintainance issues and common faults or defects. I'm known by "Zimmerman" over there. The Mazda has won the award for the best car in it's class since it came out in 2004.

 

[acs236]

I also have trouble following the alleged scam, but here's how I see it.

The question is how does the car dealership profit from this?

Two possibilities I can see:

They would profit if they bait you into a transaction that is more profitable to them (another car, more expensive, etc.), or

If they hold on to your deposit money, earn interest off of it for 90 days, and then refund it.

That's scummy thing to try, I agree. But you have an out. I think that the most prudent thing to do is to get your deposit back.

 

[Otto]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik Bring as many friends as you can. During negotiations, have them wander around the floor. Have them talk to the other customers. That drives the sales staff nuts.

I love that advise.

 

[Squeek]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Citizen Z Regardless the outcome, I highly commend you on your decision to buy a Mazda 3. I own a 2004 "S" 5 door and have loved every minute of it. I reccomend popping over to http://www.mazda3forums.net. It is the largest online Mazda3 community with TONS of information on the Mazda3, how to guides in case you ever decide to modify your ride (turbo!) or look up preventative maintainance issues and common faults or defects. I'm known by "Zimmerman" over there. The Mazda has won the award for the best car in it's class since it came out in 2004.

Nice! Thanks for the info. My experience has not poisoned me on the car, just on that particular dealership. I'll have a look on that forum once I actually get the car in my driveway.

 

[Citizen Z]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeek Nice! Thanks for the info. My experience has not poisoned me on the car, just on that particular dealership. I'll have a look on that forum once I actually get the car in my driveway.

Pics of my ride can be seen: http://www.macducky.net/mazda3/index.htm

Yea, I'm kind of a breathless fanboy for the car. It's my first new car. My previous three were... crap.

 

[Otto]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Citizen Z Pics of my ride can be seen: http://www.macducky.net/mazda3/index.htm

Very nice.

 

[AlanY]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeek As I said, they had no intention of letting the car go for that price. They will sell out of however many they get in, and for more than the price that I negotiated. They will pull out, and sell it to someone else for a higher profit margin if I decide to wait them out. They lose nothing by not selling it to me, as they will see my $1000 as a loss, not a gain.

Like I've said before, your line of reasoning only works for sales of products where a shortage is involved. There is no shortage of Mazda3s right now. Selling the vehicle to you in no way prevents them from selling as many vehicles as they want to others. There is zero incentive for them not to sell to you now in the hopes that a higher bidder for the same car will come along later. They can get as many Mazda3s as they want when they place their next order from the factory.

Some car models occasionally have shortages, e.g. the 06 Honda Civic DX-G was in short supply in Canada before the price increase in January, but the Mazda3 is not one of those. It's one of the top selling vehicles in Canada, but the sales volume has remained relatively steady over the last several months. There have been no spikes that would strain factory production.

Quote:

The toal time they put in including phone calls is probably around 25 minutes. If they can bully me into spending another $800, it's not a bad gamble is it?

Have they tried to upsell you on another more expensive vehicle? It doesn't sound like that's what's happening. That idea seems to be coming from your anger and speculation about the situation, not from the reality on the ground.

Quote:

**edit** bear in mind that they sell more Mazda's than any otehr dealership in my province, and the city I live in is not nearly as large as Toronto, so, they sell a lot of cars. It's not like by my refusal they will have a car rotting away on the lot.

No, but the car isn't on the lot right now. The sales guy loses a sale, he loses commission on the sale, the dealership loses a decent profit on the vehicle sale. It's in their best interest to move the vehicle.

 

[Squeek]

^ I'll let you know exactly how things pan out tomorrow. I've already gotten "the white one has leather and the red has a moonroof". We'll see what else he comes up with tomorrow.

One important thing to note...he "says" the car is not on the lot. Who's to say my exact car is not sitting there as we speak? He may miraculously find it when I shoot down all of his upsells. I have no idea exactly how it is going to pan out at this point, so yes, much of my initial post is speculation, though backed up through hindsight and insider knowledge through my friend that used to sell cars.

 

[Squeek]

^ I'll let you know exactly how things pan out tomorrow. I've already gotten "the white one has leather and the red has a moonroof". We'll see what else he comes up with tomorrow.

One important thing to note...he "says" the car is not on the lot. Who's to say my exact car is not sitting there as we speak? He may miraculously find it when I shoot down all of his upsells. I have no idea exactly how it is going to pan out at this point, so yes, much of my initial post is speculation, though backed up through hindsight and insider knowledge through my friend that used to sell cars.

 

[mr_baseball_08]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik Typical. Car dealers have been doing this for years. You need to readjust your attitude towards them. After all, you hold almost all the cards, not them. Act like it. Don't just go to one dealer, go to several. Get as much paperwork as you can from each and be sure to bring it with you. Don't be shy about the fact that you're looking at more than one dealer. You, after all, don't care about the dealer. You only care about the car. Second, put it in writing. Take a legal pad and a pen with you. If they promise something, write it down. Ask them to sign or initial the promise. If they balk, hone in on why what you wrote isn't accurate. After all, they said it. Press them on why they're not being straight with you. They absolutely hate this, by the way, but it is very effective. Turn the tables on the timing. Agree to pay 5% over list if, and only if, they agree to it within 60 minutes. After that, it goes to 4%. After two hours, you walk. Bring as many friends as you can. During negotiations, have them wander around the floor. Have them talk to the other customers. That drives the sales staff nuts. Shop near the end of the month. Most of them have quotas to meet and can be much more agreeable on the 29th as opposed to the 3rd. A slightly more advanced technique for getting a good price is lining up financing through your bank or credit union. Don't tell the dealer this. Instead, agree to whatever expensive scheme they want. However, be sure it allows you to pay off early without penalty. If you agree to one of these, they will sell the car for less thinking they'll make up the difference on the back end. Except they won't when you pay off the loan with your other financing. Most importantly, remember that you hold the cards. If you are reasonable and press hard, you will get what you want. If you really want to make them sweat, bring a lawyer. I've done this, mostly because I am one. Many of my friends are, too. Whenever one of us needs a car, we show up in a pack. You should see their faces when they realize there are five lawyers in the negotiation room. Even bringing in sales and floor managers leaves them outgunned. We've beaten the snot out of several dealers. Before I get stereotyped, this is reserved only for the worst of humanity: car dealers, insurance companies and opposing counsel who don't play fair. I bought my current car used from a private party. His asking price was fair so I paid him that. Everyone was happy and it wrapped up in minutes. I much prefer those transactions. But anyhow, don't take it. Put it in writing. Bring along your toughest friends. Make sure your offer is fair and then hammer them with it. They will give in.

Thanks for the great advice.. I've never had to deal with any car salesmen before because I usually stay away from the car lots, but this would make a great guide from any beginner. I'd never have thought of some of the things you mentioned..

 

[Denim]

I've got to say that the car buying experience has changed over the years. I know it is common to go to a dealer and list your preferences, he responds with what it will cost, negotions, and done deal. But the car is never seen until the buyer picks it up.

I've never bough a car for myself that I haven't driven and seen first hand before buying. The only exception has been with company cars. People that I work with buy without seeing, just like many others. I, for one, have to see the car before deciding I'll pay for it. I know it drives just like every other one that was made. But if it's not on the lot, I won't do the deal.

 

[Edwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik Typical. Car dealers have been doing this for years. You need to readjust your attitude towards them. After all, you hold almost all the cards, not them. Act like it. Don't just go to one dealer, go to several. Get as much paperwork as you can from each and be sure to bring it with you. Don't be shy about the fact that you're looking at more than one dealer. You, after all, don't care about the dealer. You only care about the car. Second, put it in writing. Take a legal pad and a pen with you. If they promise something, write it down. Ask them to sign or initial the promise. If they balk, hone in on why what you wrote isn't accurate. After all, they said it. Press them on why they're not being straight with you. They absolutely hate this, by the way, but it is very effective. Turn the tables on the timing. Agree to pay 5% over list if, and only if, they agree to it within 60 minutes. After that, it goes to 4%. After two hours, you walk. Bring as many friends as you can. During negotiations, have them wander around the floor. Have them talk to the other customers. That drives the sales staff nuts. Shop near the end of the month. Most of them have quotas to meet and can be much more agreeable on the 29th as opposed to the 3rd. A slightly more advanced technique for getting a good price is lining up financing through your bank or credit union. Don't tell the dealer this. Instead, agree to whatever expensive scheme they want. However, be sure it allows you to pay off early without penalty. If you agree to one of these, they will sell the car for less thinking they'll make up the difference on the back end. Except they won't when you pay off the loan with your other financing. Most importantly, remember that you hold the cards. If you are reasonable and press hard, you will get what you want. If you really want to make them sweat, bring a lawyer. I've done this, mostly because I am one. Many of my friends are, too. Whenever one of us needs a car, we show up in a pack. You should see their faces when they realize there are five lawyers in the negotiation room. Even bringing in sales and floor managers leaves them outgunned. We've beaten the snot out of several dealers. Before I get stereotyped, this is reserved only for the worst of humanity: car dealers, insurance companies and opposing counsel who don't play fair. I bought my current car used from a private party. His asking price was fair so I paid him that. Everyone was happy and it wrapped up in minutes. I much prefer those transactions. But anyhow, don't take it. Put it in writing. Bring along your toughest friends. Make sure your offer is fair and then hammer them with it. They will give in.

LOL, I live in the South Bay area, and am about to embark on a car shopping/haggling trip. (current target, 2007 Honda Civic) This is great advice.

Are there any California consumer protection laws I should be aware to help avoid the "spinning" / "bait and switch" ploys?

Hmmmm. There do seem to be quite a few Head-fi lawyers here, or at least "lawyers-in-training" here in SoCal.

HEAD-FI MEET AT THE AUTO DEALERSHIPS!!!

-Ed

 

[KYTGuy]

Hey ed! (et al) -

Today's (Apr 15) Smart Money.com article is on buying a car...might have or reinforce good plan of attack...

Also, I have mentioned it before, while bargaining, ask for the extended warranty, watch the cost grow as they figure it into the financing - they want $1500 for the contract, and through the wonder of extended payment, viola, it costs you $3000 extra. What they don't tell you is that they take quite a bit of profit on the warranty, so much so that they often take some more off the car price...

I would sign the purchase contract, after getting the absolute best deal I could on the whole deal, car+warranty. Then within the three days "right of recission", send a telephone call, and a written notice of my intent to sever the extended warranty from the purchase price of the car, cancelling the extended warranty. They would then thunder at me that the whole contract would have to be renegotiated, at which I would reply that the extended warranty is severable, and that they were only required to recompute my payments, and that the contract for the purchase of the car was still in effect. Then, after they complied, I would call one of the companies that I found online that offer extended warranties, and sign a separate contract for less than $700 cash total cost. I did this three times while I was buying cars in Kalifornia. Worked to my benefit every time I tried it. Has worked once in Washington, too. The ones I did in Kalifornia were even the exact same warranty, same as if I had purchased it from the dealer, but they cost me much less.

I made several claims against the previous warranties, and they all were honored, just as if I had bought it from the dealer, by the dealer's service department. I have made no claim on the most recent warranty.

Hope you find this helpful.

 

[zachary80]

Squeek that is too bad. It seems like there should be some sort of protection against that sort of thing

I just bought a Mazda3i Touring a month ago, and I agree with Citizen Z. I also am a member at the other forums, but am under the same name (don't contribute much though). My experience was completely different though as the salesman I dealt with, along with the store manager, were great guys that I really enjoyed dealing with. In fact, I am sort of looking forward to taking my car in for its first checkup here shortly

 

[jPod]

boooooooo Get the Mazda6