[buson160man]

I have had my conductor 3 for a good month and a half maybe and it is pretty much broken in by now. I was listening yesterday using my mr speakers aon open back phones yesterday and I could not help but notice a bit of brightness to the sound signature. In comparison to my old ha-160 amp that I was using before. So today I resurrected my ha-160 and hooked it up to the conductor 3 using it for the first time as a preamp. I looked up the manual on the burson website manual website and with some trial and error figured out how to set up the conductor for dac only operation. I wished that burson had included a product manual with the new conductor. None was provided. I have to print out a copy while I have the chance to on their website. So getting back to real purpose of my post the perception of a bright output on the headphone amplifier of the new conductor three. I hooked up the ha 160 and even after a very short listen that bright sound signature of the conductor 3 has been exposed. The old reliable ha 160 with the hifi tuning supreme fuse upgrade and a kubala sosna power cord sounds pretty decent in fact it is definitely less bright than the conductor 3 while losing none of the good points of the conductor 3. With the ha 160 there is a sense of body and weight that is just not there with the conductor 3. But to its credit the conductor is a more than capable dac when used for that purpose. But I am a bit bummed by the headphone amp section. I am thinking it could be attributable to the switching power supply section that the new conductor 3 has. I wish I could hear the old conductor version 2 with its dual linear power supply and greater output. I suspect as a headphone amp it might have some advantages over the newer conductor 3. I have to say that the old ha-160 still is a pretty capable headphone amp even after all this time. It had definitely proved its robustness of construction in its long lasting and trouble free operation for these many years.

 

[raoultrifan]

I have had my conductor 3 for a good month and a half maybe and it is pretty much broken in by now. I was listening yesterday using my mr speakers aon open back phones yesterday and I could not help but notice a bit of brightness to the sound signature.

Swap the opamps with V6 Classic if you have them around, if not...then use 2 x NE5532 + 2 x 5543 (actually only the duals will change the flavor enough).

 

[vault108]

Question: DPLL settings. Do they impact the listening experience on the V3? And if so, noticeably?

My default setup involves upsampling all sources in Foobar to DSD256, to allow for more control over the conversion process. (I also experimented with HQplayer, but found it too cumbersome for day2day use). Since the V3 is my first ES9038 based DAC, I wonder if it still makes sense to software upsample before hitting the DAC. When sending DSD256 to the V3, I have to set DPLL DSD to High (Med = white hiss, Low = frequent drops, Off = no lock). Even with the High setting, I experience white hiss occasionally.

No problems with DSD128 and DPLL DSD=med

Hardware: Dell i7->Jitterbug->AQ Carbon 1m->V3

I will start more A/B (upsample/no upsample - DPLL lo-hi) listening sessions soon to see if one or the other playback method makes a difference. So far, default upsampling of every of my FLAC sources, has resulted in excellent results of sq, but at the presumed cost of DPLL=high. I was also lurking in the L.K.S Audio MH-DA004 forums where folks are discussing this. Some people claim a DPLL low setting improves the sound.

I also noticed a slight flicker of the icon (music note) next to the DSD symbol and I wonder if this is an indicator of locking issues with DSD256. No flicker when playing DSD64 sources (DSD processor set to direct).

Hey, if you have a chance, give JRiver Media Center a try (it's not free, but have trial). You can upsample to DSD512 (8xDSD) but the sound stutter. Same stutter on the iFi Micro BL. I mainly use 4xDSD in native format. It’s alternative to Foobar.

My results are same as your.
DSD in native format
1xDSD (DSD64) with DPLL (DSD) Low, no problem
2xDSD (DSD128) with DPLL (DSD) Mid, no problem
4xDSD (DSD256) with DPLL (DSD) High, no problem

 

[atmfrank]

Hey, if you have a chance, give JRiver Media Center a try (it's not free, but have trial). You can upsample to DSD512 (8xDSD) but the sound stutter. Same stutter on the iFi Micro BL. I mainly use 4xDSD in native format. It’s alternative to Foobar.

My results are same as your.
DSD in native format
1xDSD (DSD64) with DPLL (DSD) Low, no problem
2xDSD (DSD128) with DPLL (DSD) Mid, no problem
4xDSD (DSD256) with DPLL (DSD) High, no problem

I tried an older version (v23) a while back but didn't like the interface. Thanks for confirming the 4xDSD observations. I am still trying to assess if there are any trade-offs in sq for DPLL High settings, but so far my listening sessions have not revealed any differences.

 

[atmfrank]

I have had my conductor 3 for a good month and a half maybe and it is pretty much broken in by now. I was listening yesterday using my mr speakers aon open back phones yesterday and I could not help but notice a bit of brightness to the sound signature. In comparison to my old ha-160 amp that I was using before. So today I resurrected my ha-160 and hooked it up to the conductor 3 using it for the first time as a preamp. I looked up the manual on the burson website manual website and with some trial and error figured out how to set up the conductor for dac only operation. I wished that burson had included a product manual with the new conductor. None was provided. I have to print out a copy while I have the chance to on their website. So getting back to real purpose of my post the perception of a bright output on the headphone amplifier of the new conductor three. I hooked up the ha 160 and even after a very short listen that bright sound signature of the conductor 3 has been exposed. The old reliable ha 160 with the hifi tuning supreme fuse upgrade and a kubala sosna power cord sounds pretty decent in fact it is definitely less bright than the conductor 3 while losing none of the good points of the conductor 3. With the ha 160 there is a sense of body and weight that is just not there with the conductor 3. But to its credit the conductor is a more than capable dac when used for that purpose. But I am a bit bummed by the headphone amp section. I am thinking it could be attributable to the switching power supply section that the new conductor 3 has. I wish I could hear the old conductor version 2 with its dual linear power supply and greater output. I suspect as a headphone amp it might have some advantages over the newer conductor 3. I have to say that the old ha-160 still is a pretty capable headphone amp even after all this time. It had definitely proved its robustness of construction in its long lasting and trouble free operation for these many years.

I don't have a long history with Burson, spent less than 1 yr with the CV2+ before switching to the V3. My observations are similar to yours: the V3 sounds (very slightly) "brighter" than the V2+. I put "brighter" in quotes because I find the V3 more revealing and detailed than any other DAC/head-amp I have used in the past. Perhaps the increase in brightness can be traced back to the DAC in the signal chain, or the source material?

I did a lot of subjective A/B listening sessions between the V2+ and V3. It is difficult (time-consuming) to create a true set-up to establish a definite difference. My impression, the V2+ ended up sounding closer to my old Gustard X20u (also: ES9018/XMOS/conventional power supply) and it became a foregone conclusion to stick with the more detailed sounding V3.

As @raoultrifan mentioned, there are many ways to shape the experience. I am currently running with V6 Vivid opamps, which are known to bring out more detail. The V6 Classic might do the trick for you.

 

[DarKu]

Hey guys,
Just posted my final review for C3Ref (included some Q&A with the Burson team and some comparisons). Hope you like it.

 

[raoultrifan]

I know I liked it for sure!

I also liked the compare between the HA160 and the C3Ref, that came just well after the previous couple of posts from above.

Now I'm waiting for a side-by-side test CV2+ vs. C3Ref, hope you can get the CV2+ from the dealer.

 

[buson160man]

I don't have a long history with Burson, spent less than 1 yr with the CV2+ before switching to the V3. My observations are similar to yours: the V3 sounds (very slightly) "brighter" than the V2+. I put "brighter" in quotes because I find the V3 more revealing and detailed than any other DAC/head-amp I have used in the past. Perhaps the increase in brightness can be traced back to the DAC in the signal chain, or the source material?

I did a lot of subjective A/B listening sessions between the V2+ and V3. It is difficult (time-consuming) to create a true set-up to establish a definite difference. My impression, the V2+ ended up sounding closer to my old Gustard X20u (also: ES9018/XMOS/conventional power supply) and it became a foregone conclusion to stick with the more detailed sounding V3.

As @raoultrifan mentioned, there are many ways to shape the experience. I am currently running with V6 Vivid opamps, which are known to bring out more detail. The V6 Classic might do the trick for you.

 

[buson160man]

I don't have a long history with Burson, spent less than 1 yr with the CV2+ before switching to the V3. My observations are similar to yours: the V3 sounds (very slightly) "brighter" than the V2+. I put "brighter" in quotes because I find the V3 more revealing and detailed than any other DAC/head-amp I have used in the past. Perhaps the increase in brightness can be traced back to the DAC in the signal chain, or the source material?

I did a lot of subjective A/B listening sessions between the V2+ and V3. It is difficult (time-consuming) to create a true set-up to establish a definite difference. My impression, the V2+ ended up sounding closer to my old Gustard X20u (also: ES9018/XMOS/conventional power supply) and it became a foregone conclusion to stick with the more detailed sounding V3.

As @raoultrifan mentioned, there are many ways to shape the experience. I am currently running with V6 Vivid opamps, which are known to bring out more detail. The V6 Classic might do the trick for you.

 

[buson160man]

I SAW YOUR REPLY TO MY OBSERVATION THAT THE NEW CONDUCTOR SOUNDED SOMEWHAT BRIGHT IN COMPARISON TO MY OLD HA-160. I WANT TO POINT OUT THAT I HAD UPGRADED THE STOCK FUSE IN MY OLD HA-160 TO A HIFI TUNING SUPREME FUSE. PLUS I AM USING KUBALA SOSNA POWER CORDS THAT COST MORE THAN THE HA-160. MOST PEOPLE WOULD PROBABLY USE SOMETHING A LOT LESS EXPENSIVE.. I WAS WONDERING IF YOU HAD EVER UPGRADED THE STOCK FUSE TO SOMETHING LIKE THE HIFI TUNING SUPREME FUSE. ALSO IF YOU HAVE EVER TRIED A BETTER POWER CORD ON YOUR CONDUCTOR V2. ON THE HA-160 THE FUSE UPGRADE MADE PRETTY NOTICEABLE IMPROVEMENT IN THE SOUND QUALITY. YOU MIGHT IF YOU STILL HAVE THE CONDUCTOR V2 TRY UPGRADING THE STOCK FUSE TO SOMETHING LIKE THE SUPREME FUSE AND USE A BETTER POWER CORD. YOU COULD VERY WELL BE SURPRISED BY THE DIFFERENCE THESE RELATIVELY EASY TWEAKS CAN MAKE.

 

[buson160man]

UNFORTUNATELY THE NEW CONDUCTOR DOES NOT HAVE A FUSE THAT I CAN SEE. SO THAT OPTION APPEARS TO BE NOT ON THE TABLE FOR THE NEW CONDUCTOR VERSION 3.UPGRADING FUSES CAN MAKE A PRETTY NOTICEABLE DIFFERENCE ON COMPONENTS. I REPLACED THE STOCK FUSES IN MY RECAPPED VINTAGE CONCEPT 16.5 RECEIVER AND THE SOUND DEFINITELY IMPROVED PRETTY DRAMATICALLY. THE NOISE LEVELS DROPPED CONSDERABLY.

 

[vault108]

UNFORTUNATELY THE NEW CONDUCTOR DOES NOT HAVE A FUSE THAT I CAN SEE. SO THAT OPTION APPEARS TO BE NOT ON THE TABLE FOR THE NEW CONDUCTOR VERSION 3.UPGRADING FUSES CAN MAKE A PRETTY NOTICEABLE DIFFERENCE ON COMPONENTS. I REPLACED THE STOCK FUSES IN MY RECAPPED VINTAGE CONCEPT 16.5 RECEIVER AND THE SOUND DEFINITELY IMPROVED PRETTY DRAMATICALLY. THE NOISE LEVELS DROPPED CONSDERABLY.

The C3 came with an extra nano ceramic fuse. The fuse is in the lower left corner opposite of the opamps.

 

[atmfrank]

I SAW YOUR REPLY TO MY OBSERVATION THAT THE NEW CONDUCTOR SOUNDED SOMEWHAT BRIGHT IN COMPARISON TO MY OLD HA-160. I WANT TO POINT OUT THAT I HAD UPGRADED THE STOCK FUSE IN MY OLD HA-160 TO A HIFI TUNING SUPREME FUSE. PLUS I AM USING KUBALA SOSNA POWER CORDS THAT COST MORE THAN THE HA-160. MOST PEOPLE WOULD PROBABLY USE SOMETHING A LOT LESS EXPENSIVE.. I WAS WONDERING IF YOU HAD EVER UPGRADED THE STOCK FUSE TO SOMETHING LIKE THE HIFI TUNING SUPREME FUSE. ALSO IF YOU HAVE EVER TRIED A BETTER POWER CORD ON YOUR CONDUCTOR V2. ON THE HA-160 THE FUSE UPGRADE MADE PRETTY NOTICEABLE IMPROVEMENT IN THE SOUND QUALITY. YOU MIGHT IF YOU STILL HAVE THE CONDUCTOR V2 TRY UPGRADING THE STOCK FUSE TO SOMETHING LIKE THE SUPREME FUSE AND USE A BETTER POWER CORD. YOU COULD VERY WELL BE SURPRISED BY THE DIFFERENCE THESE RELATIVELY EASY TWEAKS CAN MAKE.

Audio is a great and fun hobby. It brings out interesting personality traits. I too have a hard time letting go of audio equipment I had for a long time. There is an intimate personal attachment to the way it sounds, the effort we put it in to perfect it (with enhancements). Something so familiar cannot be replaced so easily, or we choose not to. For me, it was a set of speakers I build myself from Dynaudio components with the best cross-over components money could by. I used special inductors made from the highest grade copper and the best capacitors available. I spend more on the cross-over, or at least equal amount to the drivers.....long story, I just now 30 years (!) later I decided to mothball those puppies. They still sound amazing even today and there are plenty of friends who can confirm.

So goes the audio journey, eventually, the time comes to let go of the familiar and embrace to shiny new and BETTER stuff.

Sorry for the philosophical rant here, but if I had experienced the amazing "wow" effect when the HA-160 first arrived, I might have similar sentiments. I am not going to invest in enhanced power cables or fuses for the C3R...I am going to enjoy this puppy as is, swap a few opamps in and out...and be done with it until such time the C4R comes out . Cheers man, and enjoy what you have.

 

[raoultrifan]

UNFORTUNATELY THE NEW CONDUCTOR DOES NOT HAVE A FUSE THAT I CAN SEE. SO THAT OPTION APPEARS TO BE NOT ON THE TABLE FOR THE NEW CONDUCTOR VERSION 3.UPGRADING FUSES CAN MAKE A PRETTY NOTICEABLE DIFFERENCE ON COMPONENTS. I REPLACED THE STOCK FUSES IN MY RECAPPED VINTAGE CONCEPT 16.5 RECEIVER AND THE SOUND DEFINITELY IMPROVED PRETTY DRAMATICALLY. THE NOISE LEVELS DROPPED CONSDERABLY.

I strongly don't recommend fuse replacement, especially in brand new & under warranty equipment!

There is no noise to get lowered in this device, because there are no fuses in the signal path. The only fuse would be on the power supply input, on the motherboard, and it's most likely a slow-blow gold or rhodium plated one. Feel free to find it and short-circuit it with a pliers or screw-driver or something, while listening to your headphones and checking for background noise improvement.

 

[raoultrifan]

I guess most of us did received a message from BURSON today:

"Register to get another 12 months of warranty, Free.

To further support our customers, we are offering another 12 months of warranty on top of the standard 2 years! So a total of 3 years if you follow the simple steps to register from the page below.

https://www.bursonaudio.com/warranty/

This applies to direct sales customers only. Customers purchasing through our dealers and distributors will have to follow their warranty policies".

Now I'm quite positive that the extended warranty issue is on the distributors side and I find BURSON's message peaceful and revealing right now, doing sort of best of both worlds for us.