[imran27]

Hi Raoul. Thank you.

The best I/V is always made with discrete OP-AMP's - transistors as they can give the best dynamic to the sound, so in I/V and Pre-Amp I intend only to swap between Vivid and Classic ( I've ordered also 2 Classic's ). I don't have the 627 and I'm not sure they will be better than Burson's, for a price almost siimilar.

The LP are the ones I intend to play more. I have a lot of dual OP-AMP's , most from TI, but also some Muses 01 and 02 remaining from my tests with an old Essence STX - now equipped with V5i from Burson. This should change very little to the sound of the Vivids but may give better SNR as most IC OP-AMP's have better SNR than discrete circuits. Also as I've read in the thread that the Classic's have a small noise, perhaps an 2134 or 2132 in LP may reduce it. On the STX with 3x2132 I was able to get the Asus claimed 124dB SNR in RMAA. With stock - only 117dB.

If all is going well, probably I will buy also the basic version of Play to try more experiments.

For me OPA1662, OPA1612 and OPA2209 are better than at least V5i-D.

Discrete opamps would perform way better in gain stage compared to I/V since not a lot of slew is required in I/V. In I/V the PSRR, Open loop gain and CMRR matter a lot along with input capacitance.

That's the reason why 2197 sounds so much more warm and smooth compared to 2192, both being CMOS opamps.

 

[Eiffel]

Yes, still V5i is only a hybrid IC, not an entirely discrete OP-AMP.
I'm not surprised to hear that normal IC can be better than V5i. That's why I intend to consider 2209 for a future test.

And that's why I intend to play more with the normal IC OP-AMP's in LP for now.

 

[raoultrifan]

For lowering the noise I can strongly recommend AD8599, just give it a try in I/V and LPF.

For Pre-Amp stage I haven't noticed much differences and I won't bother swapping opamps in this stage, mostly because is unity (or around 1X) gain there.

 

[Bastianpp]

Interesting, but the 8 OHM !! (What), kill this product.

 

[newtophones07]

Interesting, but the 8 OHM !! (What), kill this product.

Why the issue with the lower impedance?

 

[Bastianpp]

Why the issue with the lower impedance?

Is ridiculous high, for me 1 - 2 ohm max.

 

[newtophones07]

Is ridiculous high, for me 1 - 2 ohm max.

What headphones do you use?

 

[Bastianpp]

Ether flow ( 22 ohm ) and beyerdynamic t5p mk2 (32ohm), maybe an iem in the future.

 

[Blinding]

I have the Play and I have to 2nd the fact that with my Fidelio X2 the gain, I think, its too high. When no sound is playing I'm getting a static noise on the background (the volume of it varies a bit dont know why). And as video reviewer mentioned, with the standart 6.35mm adapter plugged to a vmoda boom mic cable, if I touched or moved the adapter I got major static noise. Cant use the Vmoda boom pro with this as well, I think its grounding issue, using the Fidelios X2 with Modmic V5 and it works well, but the Vmoda is much more convinient. The sound of the unit itself and the sound of the mic (as reported by friends ) is great tough.

 

[raoultrifan]

Interesting, but the 8 OHM !! (What), kill this product.

Why the issue with the lower impedance?

Is ridiculous high, for me 1 - 2 ohm max.

Hello, I realise this is long thread, but few pages ago I did some pretty accurate measurements: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new...mp-rollers-dream.860882/page-12#post-13971454.

Please all, be aware that BURSON is publishing the specs of their Hi-Fi devices based on the worst scenarios, not like most manufactures that are only stating the specs from the best scenarios! PLAY has not output resistors, you can see that by yourself while looking to the PCB; this is class-A transistors amplifier and not TPA6120A2 that has 10-ohms resistors on outputs!

With 32 ohms resistive load PLAY's calculated output impedance was about 0.5 ohms, so I really don't see any issues. It's 8 ohms output impedance is occurring when using 8-16 ohms headphones impedance. I haven't tested it with lower resistance because PLAY was not meant for 16-ohms headphones, though it supports them pretty well (technically speaking) and if you're using a resistive adapter-plug you could use low-impedance IEMs as well.

I have the Play and I have to 2nd the fact that with my Fidelio X2 the gain, I think, its too high. When no sound is playing I'm getting a static noise on the background (the volume of it varies a bit dont know why). [...]

What ver. of PLAY are you using, please? I mean...what opamps are inside? Also, are you using coputer's PSU or the one provided by BURSON (the 75W power adapter)?

 

[selvakumar]

Hello, I realise this is long thread, but few pages ago I did some pretty accurate measurements: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new...mp-rollers-dream.860882/page-12#post-13971454.

Please all, be aware that BURSON is publishing the specs of their Hi-Fi devices based on the worst scenarios, not like most manufactures that are only stating the specs from the best scenarios! PLAY has not output resistors, you can see that by yourself while looking to the PCB; this is class-A transistors amplifier and not TPA6120A2 that has 10-ohms resistors on outputs!

With 32 ohms resistive load PLAY's calculated output impedance was about 0.5 ohms, so I really don't see any issues. It's 8 ohms output impedance is occurring when using 8-16 ohms headphones impedance. I haven't tested it with lower resistance because PLAY was not meant for 16-ohms headphones, though it supports them pretty well (technically speaking) and if you're using a resistive adapter-plug you could use low-impedance IEMs as well.



What ver. of PLAY are you using, please? I mean...what opamps are inside? Also, are you using coputer's PSU or the one provided by BURSON (the 75W power adapter)?

Hello, I realise this is long thread, but few pages ago I did some pretty accurate measurements: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new...mp-rollers-dream.860882/page-12#post-13971454.

Please all, be aware that BURSON is publishing the specs of their Hi-Fi devices based on the worst scenarios, not like most manufactures that are only stating the specs from the best scenarios! PLAY has not output resistors, you can see that by yourself while looking to the PCB; this is class-A transistors amplifier and not TPA6120A2 that has 10-ohms resistors on outputs!

With 32 ohms resistive load PLAY's calculated output impedance was about 0.5 ohms, so I really don't see any issues. It's 8 ohms output impedance is occurring when using 8-16 ohms headphones impedance. I haven't tested it with lower resistance because PLAY was not meant for 16-ohms headphones, though it supports them pretty well (technically speaking) and if you're using a resistive adapter-plug you could use low-impedance IEMs as well.



What ver. of PLAY are you using, please? I mean...what opamps are inside? Also, are you using coputer's PSU or the one provided by BURSON (the 75W power adapter)?

You are correct he might use loudness equilizer disable it and check again

 

[Blinding]

Hello, I realise this is long thread, but few pages ago I did some pretty accurate measurements: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new...mp-rollers-dream.860882/page-12#post-13971454.

Please all, be aware that BURSON is publishing the specs of their Hi-Fi devices based on the worst scenarios, not like most manufactures that are only stating the specs from the best scenarios! PLAY has not output resistors, you can see that by yourself while looking to the PCB; this is class-A transistors amplifier and not TPA6120A2 that has 10-ohms resistors on outputs!

With 32 ohms resistive load PLAY's calculated output impedance was about 0.5 ohms, so I really don't see any issues. It's 8 ohms output impedance is occurring when using 8-16 ohms headphones impedance. I haven't tested it with lower resistance because PLAY was not meant for 16-ohms headphones, though it supports them pretty well (technically speaking) and if you're using a resistive adapter-plug you could use low-impedance IEMs as well.



What ver. of PLAY are you using, please? I mean...what opamps are inside? Also, are you using coputer's PSU or the one provided by BURSON (the 75W power adapter)?

I'm using the NE5532 X 3, NE5543 X 2 one. Its outside of the PC with the bundled power adapter.

 

[ostewart]

Ether flow ( 22 ohm ) and beyerdynamic t5p mk2 (32ohm), maybe an iem in the future.

Planars are not as affected by output impedance, so using it with the Ether Flow will not have negative affects.

It all depends on what headphone you use the most.

Getting the iFi Audio Earbuddy for £20 solves the noise and impedance issues with IEMs for me.

 

[Sound Eq]

can you achieve with it a warmer sound than burson conductor V2+

 

[newtophones07]

First off I paid for my device. I own quite a few Burson op amp upgrade packages for various equipment, but this us my first Burson device.
The build of the device is rather impressive, especially the form factor. I am a desktop PC guy, and have been through many sound card iterations over time. In my experience, moving towards USB based DACs for more audio centered use, always adds another component, more wire management, more desk space etc.

So I saw this device and got excited to clean up my desk a tad. The ability to drop the device into your case is AWESOME. The black coating is very nice, nice paint consistency, no rough edges. Make sure you choose your case wisely though. I have two cases, but my preferred silent case, has a door and the volume knob sticks out a few centimetres too far. Better to go with a non door case, or a internal design that allows you to slide the burson into the PC cage a tad further back to clear the volume knob. The knob feel is worth the slight depth inconvenience, though. Very consistent pot control, and volume attenuation. The rear USB port and RCA analog outputs are tight and snug. The front headphone jack is a tad loose for my liking. I have quite a few 3.5mm to 1/4" adapters, and only one of my adapters fits snug. The included burson adapter it's also loose, which seems odd. Just don't move it, I guess. I would recommend a dedicated cable with a 1/4 TRS Jack vs using adpaters. It removes the possibility of jack movement on the Burson end. I do think this needs to be improved, at this price point. The rear power input, is also a tad loose Imo, so I recommend not moving that cable too much either. The remote, is all metal, and has a very nice feel in the hand, nice range for the sensor

The DAC side of the device, or better yet the ES9018 implementation is the star. Connected to an outboard amp, with the vivid opamps is sublime. Clean output, no noise, absolutely no pops/clicks when changing file sample rates like some DACs. I like the more pronounced low end and slight mid-range focus versus the classics.

Changing the opamp is very easy, just a few screws, pop out and in. Again, very nice design. I don't hear a significant difference from all my other ES9018 devices, but I do say that Burson, maybe should have considered bumping up to a ES9038, single chip (at minimum) at this price point. The USB is VERY well done, though, as I no longer need to use a ifi USB 3.0 device. Jazz instrumentation is separate and pronounced. I trend towards focusing on the bass guitar, and the feeling from the Burson comes through with power and full emotion. Every string pick is audible. Female vocal impact in the higher registry comes in clean with the sparkle I prefer, just all around well done. No PC sound card can match this, not even a Essence STX II with the Burson op amp updates (which I own). There are other external USB devices in $550 range that have more options (balanced), upgraded ES chips, and in some instance MQA. I only bring this up to compare options for PC use. Those devices don't have the build quailty, remote, form factor and amplifier power though. None of them, that I have used, have a cleaner USB port though. There is always a trade-off I guess.

The drivers for the device are a supreme hassle. I have spent more time fine tuning this device, than any other external sound device ever. This may be a function of windows, but I am noting this to save others some time. If you run Windows 10, you must run the latest version (post Dec rollout) for best functionality. I typically prefer Win10 LTSB (Enterprise) which strips out most of the windows data mining, but the native xmos drivers are NOT included in the LTSB version on windows. The supplied Win10 drivers on the Burson support page, simply do not work on my system with either LTSB or Windows Professional. The Burson support drivers also max out at 24/192 (rather than 32/192 using the native xmos drivers included in the correct Win10 version). Also note that I literally had to completely re-install my system to standard Win10 professional version, to get the native xmos drivers. Whew talk about a time sink.

The Burson Win10 drivers off the support page (4.3.1.0) also have some noise in foobar playback and Driver. So again I would recommend the native xmos drivers from Windows 10 professional (thanks for the support help from Burson through email).

I have to note, how noisy the headphone jack is. While the amp is very powerful for full size headphones, iems are not an option with this device due to the inherent high gain, which is dissapoiting. I do have a few planar headphone and the background hiss is unbearable. Things are tad better with my older beyerdynamics. I must say, the power is intoxicating. I only have a magni, and a HA-2se, at the moment, in my stash and of course the Burson outputs far harder, cleaner (minus the hiss) than both of my smaller devices.

I have tried a linear PSU, switched op amps (Vivid vs Classic), switched all USB ports, multiple USB cables (high end and stock) removed every other shares device on the board and clean installed the OS, and nothing fixes the hiss. Some won't mind this, as sound is always subjective, and you can easily turn the volume up past 10, but it bugs me.

Another oddity, is that when connected to a outboard amp (or reciever Onkyo 8270 through CD input port), the volume knob can't go past 55-60, or both the Burson and outboard device will clip. I am not sure if I am doing something wrong, but I have spent far too much time troubleshooting at this point lol.

Also note that for Video playback, I have an issue getting sound playback, unless I use Jriver (wasapi). I have tried media player classic and zoom player. With the native xmos drivers video playback requires wasapi (versus directsound or default in audio settings) and the only video player that will use wasapi is Jriver. I am curious if any other uses have similar issues, and maybe I am missing a setting somewhere so please chime in.

If you want an all in one unit, and your not sensitive to hiss, the device is perfect. If you prefer iems, you must use this is DAC mode only,. I do hope Burson can keep working on the drivers and maybe offer an opamp for the headphone portion of the device to offset the noise, or simply lower the gain in future iterations.