[climbingair]

Interesting and informative read. Thank you.

 

[MorrisL]

How much extra would you say the 2nd generation is worth over the old T1?
I have my eyes on a used T1 1st gen for a little over 400€ whereas a new T1 2nd gen is around 750-800€.
...
From what I have gathered there are quite differing opinions on their sound with some stating that the 2nd gen is bad because it's too warm-sounding and others saying it's much better because the treble has been tamed slightly. Is there really a large difference or are we talking minor reductions in treble and a slight bump in bass? Frequency response graphs would seem to indicate that the differences should be minor, although they obviously can't tell the whole story.

I recently spent some time with the T1 2nd gen and found it to be an overall warm-sounding headphone which is ideal for me. I too am baffled with the fact that the difference between this and the original T1 is not reflected in the graphs. All of these graphs show a minor reduction in tremble and that alone can't explain why the headphone doesn't hurt you with the obnoxious Beyer mountain peak found in most Beyer headphones. This peak is what has ruined most Beyer headphones for me and so many others, that arrogant spike that throws needles into your ears. The T1 2nd gen, very strangely, seems to be free from this menace.

 

[mxxl]

I recently purchased a 2nd gen t1, and it sounds amazing out of my little dot mkii and soekris 1321. I’d say imaging is the strongest point of this headphone, I’ve never heard anything this immersive before. When I listen to pink floyd it’s like the band is playing around me and the vocals are singing in my ear.

 

[Taz777]

I've got the beyerdynamic T1 2nd Gen as an outsider on my full-sized headphones list. I know these are 600-Ohm headphones so quite hard to drive. My headphone amp, an Arcam rHead, has specs as follows:

Arcam rHead headphone output power:

• 2.0W, 16Ω load
• 1.1W, 32Ω load
• 0.13W, 300Ω load

Headphone recommended impedance:
16Ω - 600Ω, 3.5 or 6.35mm plug
Output impedance: <0.5Ω

Is this output too low to drive the T1 2nd Gens?

 

[Recursion]

I've got the beyerdynamic T1 2nd Gen as an outsider on my full-sized headphones list. I know these are 600-Ohm headphones so quite hard to drive. My headphone amp, an Arcam rHead, has specs as follows:

Arcam rHead headphone output power:

• 2.0W, 16Ω load
• 1.1W, 32Ω load
• 0.13W, 300Ω load

Headphone recommended impedance:
16Ω - 600Ω, 3.5 or 6.35mm plug
Output impedance: <0.5Ω

Is this output too low to drive the T1 2nd Gens?

T1 needs about 63 mW to reach 120 dB volume, which is enough to go deaf. Your amp would output about 65 mW at 600 ohm. Considering that you would never listen at such a high volume, it has enough output power, since the power needed to reach lower volumes would be much less.

The T1 however reaches an impedance of 1400 ohm at certain frequencies. At those frequencies your amp wouldn't be able to drive it properly. So a more powerful amp would still be recommended, to ensure that you always have plenty of power to spare.

When driven properly the T1 should sound better as well, as it won't be limited by the output power of your amp.

For T1 you would ideally want a tube amp, like Schiit Lyr 3 or Woo WA7. Tube amps are what you want since they will counteract the rather bright treble of the T1. WA7 has a high output impedance of 10 ohm, but that wouldn't matter as the T1 is a 600 ohm headphone. As long as the output impedance of the amp is 10 times lower than that of the headphone, your fine.

It might however be a problem for lower impedance headphones. For those the WA7 wouldn't be ideal.

 

[Taz777]

T1 needs about 63 mW to reach 120 dB volume, which is enough to go deaf. Your amp would output about 65 mW at 600 ohm. Considering that you would never listen at such a high volume, it has enough output power, since the power needed to reach lower volumes would be much less.

The T1 however reaches an impedance of 1400 ohm at certain frequencies. At those frequencies your amp wouldn't be able to drive it properly. So a more powerful amp would still be recommended, to ensure that you always have plenty of power to spare.

When driven properly the T1 should sound better as well, as it won't be limited by the output power of your amp.

Many thanks for such a detailed response. So I may not get the very best out of them with my current amp. I really like the sound of this amp and it's a Class A amp. My other choice is the Amiron Home over-ears which I know work very well with this amp. However, I am after even better SQ so it might be a gamble worth taking and I could upgrade the amp in the future.

 

[Recursion]

@Taz777, I've just updated my post, so have another look at it if you like.

 

[Recursion]

Many thanks for such a detailed response. So I may not get the very best out of them with my current amp. I really like the sound of this amp and it's a Class A amp. My other choice is the Amiron Home over-ears which I know work very well with this amp. However, I am after even better SQ so it might be a gamble worth taking and I could upgrade the amp in the future.

I've never heard Amiron Home, but considering it's price, I don't think that it could reach the same level of SQ as the T1 can, which is known to scale very well with better gear.

I would always upgrade headphones first, the amp can always be done later if you want to maximize SQ from a certain headphone that needs it.

Many headphones these days like the Focal Elear don't even need an amp and will sound fine out of pretty much anything.

 

[Taz777]

I've never heard Amiron Home, but considering it's price, I don't think that it could reach the same level of SQ as the T1 can, which is known to scale very well with better gear.

I would always upgrade headphones first, the amp can always be done later if you want to maximize SQ from a certain headphone that needs it.

This is my current thinking too. Get the best headphones that I can for now and then upgrade the headphone amp maybe next year if I feel I need to.

 

[John Buchanan]

The T1 Gen. 2 is driven very well by a Burson Conductor 3 or 3x. Definitely not bright.

 

[Taz777]

Another question for T1 Gen 2 owners. Are these headphones suitable for bedtime listening? Are they comfortable to wear when your head is on a pillow? I remember with my Amirons that they wobbled quite a bit if you move your head slightly to the side and the bulk of the earpieces sometimes dug into the pillow causing them to shift forwards slightly.

 

[Slim1970]

The T1 Gen. 2 is driven very well by a Burson Conductor 3 or 3x. Definitely not bright.

Loving my Conductor 3X but I sold my T1.2’s. I’m sure the combo sounds fantastic. I might repurchase the T1.2’s if I can find a good second hand pair. Having tried so many TOTL headphones, I can confidently say the T1.2’s are a bargain for what they do.

 

[MorrisL]

Are the pads on the T1 the same as DT 990/880 pads? I was hoping something with a bit large opening since the 990 pads touch the top and bottom of my ear. I know they are deep with the angled driver and that feels good but I forgot how the pad openings felt.

 

[Taz777]

I just got my T1 2nd Gen headphones today. Just had a quick listen and can compare the handling to my previous beyerdynamic Amiron Homes. The T1 2nd Gen feel less substantial and lighter than the Amirons. Now this is quite odd as the spec sheets suggest that the T1s are heavier (Amiron Home = 340g without cable, T1 2nd Gen = 360g without cable). The Amirons have plusher coatings. However, the handling of the T1s feels better to me. I find them more comfortable on my head. The cable is also lighter (but is stiffer) compared to the one supplied with the Amirons.

The Amirons are a LOT darker and have less treble. The T1s sound a fair bit more sparkly with a more pronounced upper end. The sub-bass on the Amirons is superb and is a little light on the T1s. For example, there is the starting of Soul Embrace by Brian Simpson on the album Just What You Need that has a bass drum thump that was simply incredible and breathtaking to experience on the Amirons. It literally felt like someone hit the underside of my skull directly, such was the sharpness and intensity of it. That track is my reference track for sub-bass. The T1s don't quite hit the mark with that track as the Amirons do. I'm hoping the sub-bass improves with more burn-in.

The clarity with the T1s is an improvement over the Amirons. I can't comment on soundstage yet as I haven't spent enough time listening to them.

They'll be undergoing a burn-in for several nights. Can anyone recommend a burn-in time for them?

 

[gto88]

Amiron has 250 ohm inpedence, it is less than 1/2 of T1's, that might affect SQ if you use same amp for both.
Something to consider.