[cel4145]

As Mr. T would say: I pity the fool who can't hear the difference between cables! When someone categorically denies that something doesn't exist and keeps a totally closed mind about that subject, that person will never be enlightened. Supposedly we Head-Fiers are seeking the best possible sound we can find, so I prefer to keep an open mind about anything that might further that goal.

Nobel prize winner Daniel Kahneman's Thinking Fast and Slow could be an eye-opening experience for you. Assuming you have an open mind when you read it.

 

[rockclassics]

Yeah I've heard the same thing about the 900 as well (not as spacious as 990). That's really a shame though especially about the 700 because that was one of the qualities that defined the 770's (apart from their amazing bass).

Based on that I will be crossing these off my list as potential buys.

 

[Naedtrax]

Well i gave in and purchased a pair as reviews were all over the shop and figured it's a person by person basis in regards to performance more so on these than other headsets, but they'll be returned ASAP (mainly due to a faulty plug)

They're definitely semi closed as you can hear the difference just by putting them on in regards to noise isolation and they aren't wide in the sound stage either. But in saying that although small the sound stage almost made you feel "there" is it's very very intimate. Imaging on the other hand is brilliant, and seems onpar with the 560s

They sound GREAT, but the mids are so forward and in your face it takes away alot from what it's trying to accomplish, your mileage may vary

And one thing no one seems to comment on, is the HEAT generated by these on your ears. It's getting hot here in Australia and i would not recommend these to anyone that lives in a warm/hot climate as the pads hold heat quite bad.. especially coming from someone who likes long gaming sessions with a pair of pc38x's that i can wear all day with no signs of heat retention, it was awfully noticeable within 30 minutes.

As i said, the plug was faulty and a slight touch introduces cutting in and out, so back they go.

 

[Kammerat Rebekka]

Gotta love this place
I have read somewhere that…
..which is why I won’t try this headphone?

I can understand not wanting to try a headphone because you have seen a proper frequency response of said headphone. Perhaps you are treble sensitive and you spot the classic mount Beyer of doom. ‘Cymbals should always crash like 15 dB louder than anything else!!! That’s rock n roll!’

…but passing on a headphone because you have read something about the soundstage and/or imaging qualities is verging on the absurd…mostly because those two things tend to change like the wind depending on the listener.

Edith: Back on topic. I am waiting on a frequency response from somewhere I trust before I take my chances on the 900. It’s been a while since I last owned a Beyer seeing as they’ve developed a knack for making every new iteration of their older models brighter. The T90, DT1990 and Amiron Home are all proof of this trend. The only newer Beyer that changes things up is the T1 that genuinely sounds like the second coming of the Nighthawk…with a great big peak in the treble of course. I don’t really notice it as the warmth of the basement has a tendency to mask it.
…but that is why I am a little wary of this new 900.
I am still very interested though

 

[IgorRomaovsky]

Isn’t Sonarworks trustworthy? Usually their graphs are very similar to oratory.

 

[plakat]

Lets not get into another cable discussion here... yes, the cable on the DT700 is a bit utilitarian with a slightly sticky, rubbery feel to it, and replacing it with something that looks nicer, has the correct length and might produce less microphonics might be worth it. Beyer doesn't include defective cables with their headphones, so I'd rather not expect the sound to change to the better though. A broken connector is something different and reason for exchange.

Not trying a headphone because "someone on the Internet said" may spare you some money of course. On the other hand it's really hard to interpret someone else's experience to oneself. If its not just for curiosity, but for the realistic chance of keeping them, I'd order a pair and try out for myself. I did so myself, and the reviews almost made me cancel my order (or at least prepared me to send them back) -- which would have been quite a bad mistake. I really like them, a lot.

Regarding FR: Those Sonarworks diagrams are so compressed on the frequency dimension that they exaggerate level differences. They miss correct labeling for frequency. Aren't those the guys that sell software to make every headphone sound the same? OK, that was not nice to say... But somehow it seems to me that exaggerating deviations from a zero line furthers their business model.

 

[Nostoi]

Lets not get into another cable discussion here... yes, the cable on the DT700 is a bit utilitarian with a slightly sticky, rubbery feel to it, and replacing it with something that looks nicer, has the correct length and might produce less microphonics might be worth it. Beyer doesn't include defective cables with their headphones, so I'd rather not expect the sound to change to the better though. A broken connector is something different and reason for exchange.

Not trying a headphone because "someone on the Internet said" may spare you some money of course. On the other hand it's really hard to interpret someone else's experience to oneself. If its not just for curiosity, but for the realistic chance of keeping them, I'd order a pair and try out for myself. I did so myself, and the reviews almost made me cancel my order (or at least prepared me to send them back) -- which would have been quite a bad mistake. I really like them, a lot.

Regarding FR: Those Sonarworks diagrams are so compressed on the frequency dimension that they exaggerate level differences. They miss correct labeling for frequency. Aren't those the guys that sell software to make every headphone sound the same? OK, that was not nice to say... But somehow it seems to me that exaggerating deviations from a zero line furthers their business model.

Exactly on all counts.

On the Sonarworks graph - doesn't tally with my own experience of the DT700, too. And yes, exactly the same sales model as Moon Audio's review; i.e., here's a review of a new product, but let me also add that by combining it with one of our cables, you can correct any deficiencies in the FR.....

I've been listening to the DT700 this morning on my TT2 and I say again: these are fantastic headphones that scale exceptionally well and punch way above their price point.

 

[IgorRomaovsky]

I agree that Sonarworks graphs are they own thing, on Reference software they are more detailed, on Free SoundID they are extremely compressed. However FR graphs are consistent and good to understand overalll headphone character. DT 700 are extremely bright and W shaped, comparing to flatter studio headphones like SRH1540 and mentioned Custom One.

 

[Kammerat Rebekka]

^Very much agree with this. A frequency response graph of one headphone from a site you don’t really know is useless….but when you have a known reference point it is far easier to grok tonality as well as peaks and troughs.
Looking at the 900 vs 990 it looks like what used to be a slow but powerful rise in the treble over the old classic now has turned into a sudden jolt of energy…which seems to be in line with the T90, DT1990 and Amiron Home.
It also lost the bass belly of the 990 which used to mask the piercing highs somewhat..this new 900 just looks about as bright as the sun. I definitely lost my urge to purchase one.
I still want to testdrive it though which seems to be right on the horizon as my buddy ordered one.

Edith: I trust Sonarworks precisely because they try to make every headphone sound the same. There is a big difference between using a headphone for one’s listening pleasure vs using it as a professional work-tool.
If you work with audio you preferably want gear that doesn’t colour the sound. Rosetinted glasses only serve to weaken the final product.

 

[yabadaba]

Well i gave in and purchased a pair as reviews were all over the shop and figured it's a person by person basis in regards to performance more so on these than other headsets, but they'll be returned ASAP (mainly due to a faulty plug)

They're definitely semi closed as you can hear the difference just by putting them on in regards to noise isolation and they aren't wide in the sound stage either. But in saying that although small the sound stage almost made you feel "there" is it's very very intimate. Imaging on the other hand is brilliant, and seems onpar with the 560s

They sound GREAT, but the mids are so forward and in your face it takes away alot from what it's trying to accomplish, your mileage may vary

And one thing no one seems to comment on, is the HEAT generated by these on your ears. It's getting hot here in Australia and i would not recommend these to anyone that lives in a warm/hot climate as the pads hold heat quite bad.. especially coming from someone who likes long gaming sessions with a pair of pc38x's that i can wear all day with no signs of heat retention, it was awfully noticeable within 30 minutes.

As i said, the plug was faulty and a slight touch introduces cutting in and out, so back they go.

Assume this is about the 900's and yes, agree with all that you say here (well not sure about the heat thing....maybe). But, in particular, it is the midrange forwardness that caught me off guard and I'm not sure I'm going to get used to that enough to allow me to really enjoy these. Strangely, I don't really see this reflected in the few frequency graphs out there...but it is what I am hearing and is obvious when switching back and forth between 900 and 990 or 900 and TYGR or even 900 and 770.

 

[Opalius]

I ended also ordering a DT770 pro 250 ohm., So I something to compare with.

Think I will write up a review on the DT700. They should arrive next week, Monday if I'm lucky. The one I don't like will be returned...

 

[plakat]

TL;DR: I think FR charts don't tell enough of the story and the DT700 is well worth the time to try it out for oneself.

FR charts of different sources are hardly comparable of course, and knowing one source and keeping with them is often the best thing one can do. My critique regarding those pictures of Sonarworks still stands, those look like nothing more than marketing material. Are they measured against a target curve? If so, which one? The 0dB line suggests a straight line as good/correct -- which is unrealistic (i.e. not useful) without a target curve.
Plus I don't think EQ can remove all problems a headphone may have... but no mastering engineer will only audition with one pair of headphones anyway... And given the vast array of models catering for studio needs I think its better to avoid too much correction and go for a model that fits the expectations. Sometimes I wonder how any records could have been completed at all before all those helpful tools were created... maybe those helpers are not that necessary after all...

 

[cel4145]

Just noticed that DMS posted an updated version of his DT 900 Pro X measurements a few days ago

https://twitter.com/dms3tv/status/1452381881274675216

Anyone know what measurement apparatus he is using and how it compares to others?

 

[kman1211]

Just noticed that DMS posted an updated version of his DT 900 Pro X measurements a few days ago

https://twitter.com/dms3tv/status/1452381881274675216

Anyone know what measurement apparatus he is using and how it compares to others?

I am curious too, I’m getting R70X vibes from those measurements.

 

[IgorRomaovsky]

DT 700 from DMS twitter as he replied me. Don’t know of compensation he used.

Re Sonarworks, they don’t disclose their comp target, however it is close to Harman, but less bright. At least they are consistent. Flatter headphones like SRH1540 are flatter on both Somarworks and Oratory.