[Satriany]

I have been reading the last posts about harman curve and so on.
Perhaps there is also a vocabulary problem because we can call treble everything from 2 to 20khz.
I don't want any raise between 2 and 5k, it seem to be the case with ndh30.
On the other hand I think brilliance after 10k is more than just something redundant. Before also I think. There are lots of harmonics attached to strings, cymbals...then I think it is also playing a part of stereo and separation properties.
This is why people stil struggle to buy TAD td-2001 and expensive horns.
What is rarely shown is phase response and waterfall, which is important. Two systems with same frequency response will sound different partly because of that.
It is true that Harman curves can make some critical assumptions and 2018 curve is really crazy.
People tastes is not the truth as Sheldon cooper would mention.
The average listeners room is problematic.

Apparently the heddphone show is working on a new scale, check out their video on YouTube.

Going back to morphit I like their generic studio curve. And ndh30 does not need much correction to achieve that goal. It lacks some brilliance as a lot of headphones do.

 

[Joaquin Dinero]

I have a question in regard of "internally balanced" cable of the NDH30. Neumann does not have any true balanced cable, right?

I mean, if I want to use the 2.5 balanced output of a BTR5 for example, I'll have to rely exclusively on third party cables right? Adapters on this case would screw something up I presume, since the adapter would go from: 2.5 balanced to 3.5 unbalanced(but its internally balanced right, right?), It would probably blow something up.

You can't put a single ended plug into a balanced output jack; if thats what you're asking.
You can put an adaptor on a balanced plug to use it with a SE output jack.

 

[chesebert]

I have been reading the last posts about harman curve and so on.
Perhaps there is also a vocabulary problem because we can call treble everything from 2 to 20khz.
I don't want any raise between 2 and 5k, it seem to be the case with ndh30.
On the other hand I think brilliance after 10k is more than just something redundant. Before also I think. There are lots of harmonics attached to strings, cymbals...then I think it is also playing a part of stereo and separation properties.
This is why people stil struggle to buy TAD td-2001 and expensive horns.
What is rarely shown is phase response and waterfall, which is important. Two systems with same frequency response will sound different partly because of that.
It is true that Harman curves can make some critical assumptions and 2018 curve is really crazy.
People tastes is not the truth as Sheldon cooper would mention.
The average listeners room is problematic.

Apparently the heddphone show is working on a new scale, check out their video on YouTube.

Going back to morphit I like their generic studio curve. And ndh30 does not need much correction to achieve that goal. It lacks some brilliance as a lot of headphones do.

Have you just been reading and regurgitating stuff? You understand this is an auditory hobby and not a reading or visual hobby, right?

 

[OkPsychology]

To my ears the Harman curve is wrong. This post isn’t for most, but if you are a fan of classical, jazz, and well recoded and mixed rock. Lovers of fun cans and closed back bass cannons - not likely.

The sites that popularize Harman screw things up under 100 Hz by two subjective choices. They take polls of what people like, which over the past 30 years or so is bass heavy - not what’s on the recording. That’s not accurate. Further the worst thing about room speakers in an untreated room are the non linearities in particular under 400 Hz. They have some “average” room curve they also apply because they think people want to hear a familiar sound. Never mind audiophiles that spend 10’s if not 100’s of thousands for a room without these colorations - who cares about them. Let’s give the people a dose of what’s among the worse thing about speakers. That’s not accurate.

Anyone like me that travels to hear unamplified music in great halls around the world will tell you that the lower treble in the Harman is overdone.

Furthermore it’s FR only. Nothing about CSD, or bass Q, cancellations, reflections, perceived stage and details.

I’ve become a big fan of parametric EQ over the past 4 years or so. Getting the FR into the range that’s “flat” is important. But that’s not the end, that’s the start. In the past 18 months when setting up EQ for a can I’ll start with the crinicle, but never once have I ended up with that setting. Free up the can from its problems beyond just the FR and tune them to music. Takes time and an ear tuned to the music you like if not some ideal.

I 100% agree with you re: Harman bass. I always appreciate your posts. You clearly have a lot of experience to share, and your expertise comes through in your writing. Thanks for your contributions.

 

[OkPsychology]

If I really enjoy the NDH-30 sound, what iems do you guys suggest?

I'm not looking for the NDH-30 equivalent of iems, but rather those that really enjoy the NDH-30's, what's your favourite iems you listen to?

I think Etymotics are your best bet. They're similar in that they seem to be singularly focused on accurate, uncolored reproduction. Just like the Neumann. I've had a few of the Ety's. I've settled on the ER4XR and think they sound very, very good. And the price is hard to beat.

 

[headstef]

I have been reading the last posts about harman curve and so on.
Perhaps there is also a vocabulary problem because we can call treble everything from 2 to 20khz.
I don't want any raise between 2 and 5k, it seem to be the case with ndh30.
On the other hand I think brilliance after 10k is more than just something redundant. Before also I think. There are lots of harmonics attached to strings, cymbals...then I think it is also playing a part of stereo and separation properties.
This is why people stil struggle to buy TAD td-2001 and expensive horns.
What is rarely shown is phase response and waterfall, which is important. Two systems with same frequency response will sound different partly because of that.
It is true that Harman curves can make some critical assumptions and 2018 curve is really crazy.
People tastes is not the truth as Sheldon cooper would mention.
The average listeners room is problematic.

Apparently the heddphone show is working on a new scale, check out their video on YouTube.

Going back to morphit I like their generic studio curve. And ndh30 does not need much correction to achieve that goal. It lacks some brilliance as a lot of headphones do.

You don't have to worry for the range between 2 and 5 kHz. There is a small peak around 4 kHz but it is almost inaudible. In my measurements it is there because of the resonance of the exactly cylindrical hole that leads to the microphone position of the miniDSP Ears. It is not reproduced like that by the real shape of the acoustic bore of the ear.
Also, the frequency response graph that Oratory1990 has published for the NDH 30 is unfortunately compromised because, as he clearly states, it is produced as an average of different positions (reseats) of the headphone. We can't really use this technique meaningfully with the NDH 30; its frequency response is affected by wrong positioning as described elsewhere in detail, because of the offset and inclined drivers .Wrong positions diminish the areas of high-mids / low treble and brilliance (above 10kHz), much more than other wrong positions increase it.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/new-neumann-ndh30-coming.33643/page-4
Thus, the "true" treble response at the middle and natural position of the ear in the earpads is much closer to the upper limits of the gray-shaded area of measurements variation or "uncertainty".
Anyway, it is much more useful to listen and evaluate for yourself than analysing graphs and measurements that may have many issues, known and understood only by the actual tester.

 

[Satriany]

Thanks for your post.

I will order when I come back from holidays, only question is whether I shall keep the k702 which performs well once corrected. Very nice stage and separation, good transients.

Anyone tried the heddphone and compared to ndh30?

 

[headstef]

In another thread (Sony MDR-MV1) @Beagle wrote for the NDH 30:

"It’s a ‘larger screen’ HD600. Neutral. Great for studio work. But it’s not the be all and end all that is being portrayed by a certain someone. I think a lot of you would be bored with it after a day or two."

Of course, NDH 30 is not the be all and end all. But it is distinctly above the HD-600 (or the HD-650) in terms of resolution, instrument separation, soundstage precision, bass detail/linearity/extension, life-like neutrality and above all, enjoyment. Yes, it is great for studio work but it is even greater for music listening! A lot would be bored after a day or two??? Well... not if you are really reading this thread. No one has reported being (remotely) bored, actually all users are reporting quite the opposite, days, weeks or months after acquiring these.
Without dethroning the HD-800 from its soundstage throne, one of the most accurate descriptions for the NDH 30 is: It is all that the HD-800 should have been (but hasn't been yet...)

 

[Mike F]

In another thread (Sony MDR-MV1) @Beagle wrote for the NDH 30:

"It’s a ‘larger screen’ HD600. Neutral. Great for studio work. But it’s not the be all and end all that is being portrayed by a certain someone. I think a lot of you would be bored with it after a day or two."

Of course, NDH 30 is not the be all and end all. But it is distinctly above the HD-600 (or the HD-650) in terms of resolution, instrument separation, soundstage precision, bass detail/linearity/extension, life-like neutrality and above all, enjoyment. Yes, it is great for studio work but it is even greater for music listening! A lot would be bored after a day or two??? Well... not if you are really reading this thread. No one has reported being (remotely) bored, actually all users are reporting quite the opposite, days, weeks or months after acquiring these.
Without dethroning the HD-800 from its soundstage throne, one of the most accurate descriptions for the NDH 30 is: It is all that the HD-800 should have been (but hasn't been yet...)

I believe I said that!

Without disagreeing with anything you have said, I would however agree with @Beagle that some people would be bored with the NDH 30 in a few days. Many people genuinely want a headphone that engages them above all else. There are many ways that a headphone will engage someone with their music, and not everyone wants the same thing. Some people simply won't appreciate the NDH 30 for what it is, or enjoy it's qualities. That's fine. There's no right or wrong - unless you are in a studio producing music! If you want to hear what the sound engineer heard on the (calibrated) studio monitors as he/she was sitting there enjoying the moment listening back to the newly recorded track with the artist, then the NDH 30 is for you. If you prefer warm laid back sound, slightly detached presentation, ethereal treble, or what ever it is that floats your boat, then you might be happier with something else. Personally, I can't imagine being happier with another open headphone at any price, (or at least not until someone gives me €62K for THAT headphone! )

 

[plyr]

I unsubscribed from the Sony thread, not enough bass...

 

[headstef]

I unsubscribed from the Sony thread, not enough bass...

I'll wait for some measurements to appear before unsubscribing!

 

[Beagle]

I unsubscribed from the Sony thread, not enough bass...

 

[bagwell359]

I 100% agree with you re: Harman bass. I always appreciate your posts. You clearly have a lot of experience to share, and your expertise comes through in your writing. Thanks for your contributions.

Thank you. That's quite nice of you. Good wishes to you, and all here!

 

[bagwell359]

In another thread (Sony MDR-MV1) @Beagle wrote for the NDH 30:

"It’s a ‘larger screen’ HD600. Neutral. Great for studio work. But it’s not the be all and end all that is being portrayed by a certain someone. I think a lot of you would be bored with it after a day or two."

Of course, NDH 30 is not the be all and end all. But it is distinctly above the HD-600 (or the HD-650) in terms of resolution, instrument separation, soundstage precision, bass detail/linearity/extension, life-like neutrality and above all, enjoyment. Yes, it is great for studio work but it is even greater for music listening! A lot would be bored after a day or two??? Well... not if you are really reading this thread. No one has reported being (remotely) bored, actually all users are reporting quite the opposite, days, weeks or months after acquiring these.
Without dethroning the HD-800 from its soundstage throne, one of the most accurate descriptions for the NDH 30 is: It is all that the HD-800 should have been (but hasn't been yet...)

They say the current 800S is supposed to be different than the older ones. I know those and the OG. Any chance you have heard the latest batch of 800S?

 

[chesebert]

Thanks for your post.

I will order when I come back from holidays, only question is whether I shall keep the k702 which performs well once corrected. Very nice stage and separation, good transients.

Anyone tried the heddphone and compared to ndh30?

Totally different sound profile - Hedd is more warmish neutral sounding and very forgiving. It’s a more relaxed sound but still relatively neutral. Super comfortable to wear but on the very heavy side. like i said reading won’t do you any good. Just go get a demo first and then we can discuss your impression. I do think Hedd is a wonderful cans if you can put up with the weight and form factor.