[Satriany]

Thanks for your very interesting post.

I also watched some videos on the headphone show about eq and Harman curves. Very interesting videos...
What always happens in the end is a matter of tastes, music genres and so on. It is good to know what you hear and what you are measuring and how though.
Has I was saying I just need a reference for my 3 way active setup, I am sure the ndh30 will be a very good reference. I also measure a lot with rew, impulse responses and MMM.
Then I do a mix of measures, comparison with headphone and tastes.
As said, the heddphone sounded almost like my setup but used hd6xx sounds too laid back to me. Again maybe this precise model I own.
I listen to different kind of music, from Jordi savall to french electronic music. But mostly jazz from ECM.
As I go active with convolution and so on, and with quite good components (rme fireface, parasound amps, BMS 15", PHL 6", faital 1" CD), the room and the human are the limits. But what sounds good for Jordi savall will sound awfull with ice cube and vice versa. This is what is good with going 100% digital and knowing what you hear and what you want to hear...
It must be the same with headphones. Hd6xx is not the best with Jordi savall, you are loosing some magic. It is very good to listen to Joe satriani on the other hand...

 

[Plieb]

This is very interesting to me, because I tend to have the opposite reaction. When a poorly recorded/mixed/mastered track comes on when I'm using the Neumann, I immediately have the urge to grab the 660S2. They're good stablemates, these two. The NDH30 is without a doubt the less forgiving of the two, but sometimes I need a break from the immediacy and intensity of it, and the Senny really gives you a smoother, gentler presentation that I've come to love. Also, no other headphone beats the comfort of the HD600-series form factor, and I really appreciate how not-clunky they are. They're the best-wearing can in existence, IMO.

Funny because i find the Neumann's the most forgiving of all my phones including the S1 and the 6xx. No contest vs the focal elex which is very unforgiving but sounds magnificent on recordings it likes.
I would also say that i do not hear more detail with the NDH30 vs S1 and Elex but definitely more than 6xx. What i hear is a cohesiveness unparalleled to those other phones.

 

[OkPsychology]

I would agree. The problem with revealing gear has always been that poor recording are less enjoyable because they are shown to be what they are - poor recordings. As as studio monitor guy (PCM and ATC in different systems) I’ve always gravitated towards accuracy over ‘warmth’, which so often (but not always) means distortion. As a musician playing acoustic instruments I prefer to hear things as they are as far as possible. So here is a question; if I want to grab another headphone than the NDH 30 on occasion for a more relaxed listen, is there any good reason in your opinion why I should splash €600 on the S2 when I already have the 650 and 660S? In other words, if I’m willing to sacrifice the technical abilities of the NDH 30 for something which smooths out the rough edges of a poor recording, is there something special about that S2 that really justifies it over the 650 and 660S?

I think the S2 is just a few percentage points better than the original 660S, though many may disagree with that opinion. They sound very similar to my ears, and in the departments that matter to me (tonality, imaging, separation and layering) I can't really hear much of a difference between them at all. Extra subbass is a "nice-to-have" but doesn't seal the deal as far as I'm concerned. To me, the OG sounds like you've taken a few steps back from the music, making the entire "picture" a little smaller in overall size, and just a touch further away. The new one is ever so slightly more immersive, and for what it's worth, it took me a while to get into that aspect of the sound reproduction. For a few weeks I actually preferred the original. I'm leaning in favor of the S2 now, but really, just by the smallest of margins.

The 650, on the other hand, has a distinct voice and there are good reasons why I will probably hang onto that one for the foreseeable future. I like how dreamy and syrupy it can be. Way less precise, the imagery is hazy, but tonally it is luscious and thick as hell. I'm not telling you anything you don't already know.

I honestly could easily have lived without the S2, knowing what I know now. So I think I'd say no, you probably won't be gaining too much from having an S2 to complement your NDH30. I'm using mine more than the 6XX and 660S for now but that might change in the future. It's a great headphone, but so are the original 660S and 650.

 

[Droccord]

Subscribed

 

[Mike F]

I think the S2 is just a few percentage points better than the original 660S, though many may disagree with that opinion. They sound very similar to my ears, and in the departments that matter to me (tonality, imaging, separation and layering) I can't really hear much of a difference between them at all. Extra subbass is a "nice-to-have" but doesn't seal the deal as far as I'm concerned. To me, the OG sounds like you've taken a few steps back from the music, making the entire "picture" a little smaller in overall size, and just a touch further away. The new one is ever so slightly more immersive, and for what it's worth, it took me a while to get into that aspect of the sound reproduction. For a few weeks I actually preferred the original. I'm leaning in favor of the S2 now, but really, just by the smallest of margins.

The 650, on the other hand, has a distinct voice and there are good reasons why I will probably hang onto that one for the foreseeable future. I like how dreamy and syrupy it can be. Way less precise, the imagery is hazy, but tonally it is luscious and thick as hell. I'm not telling you anything you don't already know.

I honestly could easily have lived without the S2, knowing what I know now. So I think I'd say no, you probably won't be gaining too much from having an S2 to complement your NDH30. I'm using mine more than the 6XX and 660S for now but that might change in the future. It's a great headphone, but so are the original 660S and 650.

Thanks for taking the time! It's what I thought you would say (or should say) given what you've written before, but it's good to have confirmation. BTW, I enjoyed your post a little while back where you ranked all of the sixes you have. You ranked the 600 last. That's also always been my opinion, and in fact I still prefer my original 580 Precision to the early 600 I have. Initially I thought the 600 was an upgrade, but I've always found it slightly harsh, and frankly I've hardly ever used it. Too forward in the upper mids/lower treble. The fact that I would give the sixes exactly the same rating as you gives me confidence that I would probably also agree with you about the S2. I'm sure it's a very good headphone in it's own right, but for me superfluous when I have the 650 660S and NDH 30. At least for now. Thanks again!

 

[OkPsychology]

Thanks for taking the time! It's what I thought you would say (or should say) given what you've written before, but it's good to have confirmation. BTW, I enjoyed your post a little while back where you ranked all of the sixes you have. You ranked the 600 last. That's also always been my opinion, and in fact I still prefer my original 580 Precision to the early 600 I have. Initially I thought the 600 was an upgrade, but I've always found it slightly harsh, and frankly I've hardly ever used it. Too forward in the upper mids/lower treble. The fact that I would give the sixes exactly the same rating as you gives me confidence that I would probably also agree with you about the S2. I'm sure it's a very good headphone in it's own right, but for me superfluous when I have the 650 660S and NDH 30. At least for now. Thanks again!

you bet, pal. glad to help

 

[ThEvil0nE]

Finally get to have a quick listen to the S2. It is good but it did not give me the initial jaw dropping experience with occasional panic like the NDH 30 lol. Both NDH 30 and S2 will get the job done in pure listening. As a tool, the 30 is the ticket.

 

[Satriany]

Anyone using morphit?

With morphit K702 sounds great and with a very wide soundstage. Removes the nosy upper mids and adds the lacking lows. What is good is that still sounds fast and tight.
Anyone tried ?

You might want to try this new disc mix of electronic and classical

 

[Joaquin Dinero]

Anyone using morphit?

With morphit K702 sounds great and with a very wide soundstage. Removes the nosy upper mids and adds the lacking lows. What is good is that still sounds fast and tight.
Anyone tried ?

You might want to try this new disc mix of electronic and classical

I use Morphit a lot. It can even make my old Ultrasone 780s sound good. I typically use the general Harman Target setting as the 'destination'.

 

[plyr]

Grabbed my 660S off the box to compare a few weeks later, can't compete, NDH30 precise bass, makes the music much more enjoyable...

Also, 100 euros for a 1.2m cable is too expensive, did this instead:

 

[plyr]

I have a question in regard of "internally balanced" cable of the NDH30. Neumann does not have any true balanced cable, right?

I mean, if I want to use the 2.5 balanced output of a BTR5 for example, I'll have to rely exclusively on third party cables right? Adapters on this case would screw something up I presume, since the adapter would go from: 2.5 balanced to 3.5 unbalanced(but its internally balanced right, right?), It would probably blow something up.

 

[bagwell359]

To my ears the Harman curve is wrong. This post isn’t for most, but if you are a fan of classical, jazz, and well recoded and mixed rock. Lovers of fun cans and closed back bass cannons - not likely.

The sites that popularize Harman screw things up under 100 Hz by two subjective choices. They take polls of what people like, which over the past 30 years or so is bass heavy - not what’s on the recording. That’s not accurate. Further the worst thing about room speakers in an untreated room are the non linearities in particular under 400 Hz. They have some “average” room curve they also apply because they think people want to hear a familiar sound. Never mind audiophiles that spend 10’s if not 100’s of thousands for a room without these colorations - who cares about them. Let’s give the people a dose of what’s among the worse thing about speakers. That’s not accurate.

Anyone like me that travels to hear unamplified music in great halls around the world will tell you that the lower treble in the Harman is overdone.

Furthermore it’s FR only. Nothing about CSD, or bass Q, cancellations, reflections, perceived stage and details.

I’ve become a big fan of parametric EQ over the past 4 years or so. Getting the FR into the range that’s “flat” is important. But that’s not the end, that’s the start. In the past 18 months when setting up EQ for a can I’ll start with the crinicle, but never once have I ended up with that setting. Free up the can from its problems beyond just the FR and tune them to music. Takes time and an ear tuned to the music you like if not some ideal.

 

[reuben3]

If I really enjoy the NDH-30 sound, what iems do you guys suggest?

I'm not looking for the NDH-30 equivalent of iems, but rather those that really enjoy the NDH-30's, what's your favourite iems you listen to?

 

[indigogo]

If I really enjoy the NDH-30 sound, what iems do you guys suggest?

I'm not looking for the NDH-30 equivalent of iems, but rather those that really enjoy the NDH-30's, what's your favourite iems you listen to?

The closest IEM to NDH 30 is se846 with white filter. It's very close, but it's missing the very top of the NDH 30 quite a bit.
But this is only in a positive direction for IEM. Removing the grid from the base of the white filter gives these top frequencies in full. But this may not be entirely desirable for an IEM at above-average volumes.
In se846, be sure to use the original black Foam Sleeves of the correct size. Any silicone tips will not give even close to the required correct sound from them.

And do not use any bluetooth adapters for se846 - this is a complete degradation of their sound. Use only the best wired source if you want the same sound as the NDH 30.
If you need bluetooth - AirPods Pro no one will beat in this regard)))

 

[soundblast75]

Guys, have any of you upgraded the cable to say 4.4? What kind is it, any suggestions, getting these today