Featured Sponsor Listings

Neko D100 : Initial impression

Jun 17, 2009 at 7:38 PM Post #46 of 78
Considering the quality of his test conditions, I'd like to hear about a comparison in lossless files. It won't replicate my listening conditions, but for the sake of curiosity...
 
Jun 17, 2009 at 8:27 PM Post #47 of 78
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there isn't a difference. I'm saying that in whatever setup we have and formats we use there will be a ceiling, even if it's our ears, where we will hit that limitation where we cannot discern past a certain point.

When the point is reached, we are unable to resolve the subtle differences in gear or music and then, for all purposes, things will sound the same or very similar.
 
Jun 17, 2009 at 8:46 PM Post #48 of 78
I wasn't a huge fan of the Neko at Canjam.
I've never heard a Stello but out of the DACs i auditioned at Canjam i place them
Cary Xciter (Walked away with it after the event)
Lavery DA11
Benchmark
Neko

I found the Neko pretty flat and not very musical, alittle thin and bass shy to be honest
 
Jun 17, 2009 at 10:08 PM Post #49 of 78
Very interesting thread. Great post from a number of users. I await even more impressions.
 
Jun 18, 2009 at 4:29 AM Post #50 of 78
Quote:

Originally Posted by matt fury /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Considering the quality of his test conditions, I'd like to hear about a comparison in lossless files. It won't replicate my listening conditions, but for the sake of curiosity...


[size=xx-small]From Post #1

Music:

[EAC flac, EAC 320mp3, and 256mp3 from Amazon downloads]

Rilo Kiley - Under The Blacklight (flac)
Neko Case - Middle Cyclone (320)
M. Ward - Hold Time (256)
Massive Attack - Mezzanine (flac)
Françoise Hardy - Parenthèses (256)
Schoenberg - Streichersextett Verklaerte Nacht op4 (flac)[/size]
 
Jun 18, 2009 at 4:38 AM Post #51 of 78
Quote:

Originally Posted by 03029174 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I wasn't a huge fan of the Neko at Canjam.
I've never heard a Stello but out of the DACs i auditioned at Canjam i place them
Cary Xciter (Walked away with it after the event)
Lavery DA11
Benchmark
Neko

I found the Neko pretty flat and not very musical, alittle thin and bass shy to be honest


It was quite a surprise when SiBurning and I were not able to detect a JND between his Benchmark and my Stello at the last NY meet (using the same GS-1). We posted about this conundrum in the meet impressions.

USG
 
Jun 18, 2009 at 5:03 AM Post #52 of 78
Some Clarifications:
  1. I want to be clear that the Stello just happened to be the DAC that I had on hand at the time the comparisons were made, nothing more.
  1. I'm not saying anything negative about the Neko DAC. It is a fine DAC and certainly worthy of consideration by anyone looking for an upscale piece of equipment. It was my initial impressions, made using my low-fi computer rigs. (Computer > M^3/GS-1 > 650s/'03 880s) that were faulty.
  1. I had no idea the difference a few dBs could make in perception.
  1. I have been listening to the Neko for the past few weeks so I was very familiar with it's sound. I had already formed my opinions of how these DACs sounded, and what their sound signatures were by utilizing the "traditional manner" of evaluation that has been mentioned by some of the posters. It was the last 2 hour session, however, that was the most revealing. Without very careful volume balancing, and the ability to instantly cross check and compare various "areas of interest" on a recording, IMHO you don't really have a clue. What I have found is that these impressions are volume dependent and, with no base line to refer back to, have little validity.
  1. I can't tell you what a jaw-dropping, crow-eating, experience it was not to be able to hear a difference between two DACs that I had clearly heard differences between over the past few weeks.
  1. I would also like to suggest that even after discovering there was no JND to be found, the established preconceptions remain difficult to dismiss.
  1. I would like to further suggest that a majority of the impressions floating around our forums could quite possibly be nothing more than the effect of a few more or less dBs of sound and, in actuality, might be as imaginary as mine were.

USG
 
Jun 18, 2009 at 7:13 AM Post #53 of 78
Quote:

Originally Posted by upstateguy /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Some Clarifications:
  1. I want to be clear that the Stello just happened to be the DAC that I had on hand at the time the comparisons were made, nothing more.
  1. I'm not saying anything negative about the Neko DAC. It is a fine DAC and certainly worthy of consideration by anyone looking for an upscale piece of equipment. It was my initial impressions, made using my low-fi computer rigs. (Computer > M^3/GS-1 > 650s/'03 880s) that were faulty.
  1. I had no idea the difference a few dBs could make in perception.
  1. I have been listening to the Neko for the past few weeks so I was very familiar with it's sound. I had already formed my opinions of how these DACs sounded, and what their sound signatures were by utilizing the "traditional manner" of evaluation that has been mentioned by some of the posters. It was the last 2 hour session, however, that was the most revealing. Without very careful volume balancing, and the ability to instantly cross check and compare various "areas of interest" on a recording, IMHO you don't really have a clue. What I have found is that these impressions are volume dependent and, with no base line to refer back to, have little validity.
  1. I can't tell you what a jaw-dropping, crow-eating, experience it was not to be able to hear a difference between two DACs that I had clearly heard differences between over the past few weeks.
  1. I would also like to suggest that even after discovering there was no JND to be found, the established preconceptions remain difficult to dismiss.
  1. I would like to further suggest that a majority of the impressions floating around our forums could quite possibly be nothing more than the effect of a few more or less dBs of sound and, in actuality, might be as imaginary as mine were.

USG


That's why I bought an SPL meter to volume match.
 
Jun 18, 2009 at 7:31 AM Post #54 of 78
Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif
That's why I bought an SPL meter to volume match.


Out of curiosity, what is your technique for it's use with headphones?

USG
 
Jun 19, 2009 at 12:53 AM Post #55 of 78
Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif
That's why I bought an SPL meter to volume match.


I also use an SPL meter to volume match. Of course I had to "borrow" a paper plate to cut a hole for the probe to lay against the ear pad during matching.
wink.gif
 
Jun 19, 2009 at 3:23 AM Post #56 of 78
Quote:

Originally Posted by mrarroyo /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I also use an SPL meter to volume match. Of course I had to "borrow" a paper plate to cut a hole for the probe to lay against the ear pad during matching.
wink.gif



Same, but using a piece of cardboard instead.
 
Jun 19, 2009 at 3:06 PM Post #59 of 78
Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Radio Shack SPL meter, poked through a hole in a piece of cardboard, which covers the headphone earcup, and pink noise from "Bink Audio Test CD" is played and volumes levels are adjusted - often starting at 80 dB and going up or down from there depending on how the music sounds at those levels.

Pink noise from Bink Audio Test CD - Michael Knowles: Extras



I brought the rest of the technique over from the other post so it would be complete. It sounds scientific enough, so I don't think the problem is there.

There are only two other areas I can think of right now where the problem might be. One being the time delay going from source to source and the inaccuracy of fading auditory memory and the other being preconceptions introduced by our belief systems.

I think I'm going to bring this over to "Sound Science" because this is heading off topic now.... See you there.

USG
 
Jun 21, 2009 at 1:52 AM Post #60 of 78
Crazy! Really makes you think. If it is accurate and not colored there is not difference to the Ears!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top