Neko D100 : Initial impression

[WesMiaw]

I've been silently following this thread because I am really interested to hear your impressions and do not want to influence the results. But I would like to ask if you could also listen for a few specific things and include them in your comparison.

1. Transients - quick starting and stopping of sound.
2. Smearing - two sequential sounds blending together.
3. Presence - where one seems to have more "sound energy" than the other.

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT /img/forum/go_quote.gif Was it old Benchmark DAC1 or new USB version, doubt that there is any appreciable sonic difference between two, but there might. Have you tried Benchmark onboard amp, wondering if all that "dry, analytical, bright" impressions come from there?

Hi Andrew

My recollection was that it was a non USB Benchmark. We tried the onboard amp, and it was really lousy... all high and scratchy.... plugged in, heard it and pulled the plug out, so I can't really give any impressions other than it was something I didn't want to listen to.

We compared the onboard USB of the Stello against the Blue Circle Thingee's USB and everyone we asked to compare the two said, the Blue Circle sounded better.

USG



Quote:

Originally Posted by 1UP /img/forum/go_quote.gif Fair enough, the only thing that makes me doubt the comparo was that you used the Blue Circle thing...it's a PCM2xxx device - I was using transformer-coupled coax with BNC and proper 75ohm coax cable, which I much preferred...

Hi 1UP

10-4 on the Thingee... it is what it is, of course, but I've compared it's optical out to the optical out on my dedicated music computer and can't hear a noticeable difference, so although there are better USB implementations, it's good enough to be able to hear differences between DACs....

So although the Stello and Benchmark seemed to sound the same through the Thingee/GS-1, the Neko and the Stello definitely do not.

USG

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NekoAudio /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've been silently following this thread because I am really interested to hear your impressions and do not want to influence the results. But I would like to ask if you could also listen for a few specific things and include them in your comparison. Transients - quick starting and stopping of sound. Smearing - two sequential sounds blending together. Presence - where one seems to have more "sound energy" than the other.

Hi

I most certainly will listen for the items you mention, but right now I'm spending a few days getting used to the DAC and forming some basic impressions.

Cheers

USG

 

[ttan98]

Quote:

Originally Posted by upstateguy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi I most certainly will listen for the items you mention, but right now I'm spending a few days getting used to the DAC and forming some basic impressions. Cheers USG

Thank you giving your impressions of this Neko DAC and a short comparison to other DACs, I am interested in buying a new DAC considering brands such as Stello, Benchmark, Neko, PS Audio Mk3 and others.

It would most welcomed, that you summarise your impressions of various brands(incl the brands above) you are now comparing and your favorites and their comparisons at various price point.

cheers.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by upstateguy /img/forum/go_quote.gif We compared the onboard USB of the Stello against the Blue Circle Thingee's USB and everyone we asked to compare the two said, the Blue Circle sounded better.

That's very interesting and quite surprising considering much better Stello PSU and filtering versus USB powered Thingy. When I compared Stello direct USB against Transit I liked Stello USB better. I should try it against Trends UD-10.1

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's very interesting and quite surprising considering much better Stello PSU and filtering versus USB powered Thingy. When I compared Stello direct USB against Transit I liked Stello USB better. I should try it against Trends UD-10.1

That's a great idea. Do it ASAP. I'd love to know if you get the same results. I doubt the Thingee is any different than the UD-10.

I only did some informal tests because the Stello is in a different room from the laptop rig that uses the Thingee as a transport, but when I connected the Thingee to the Stello (optical or coax), it sounded the same as straight optical out of my computer, which is the way I usually connect.

USG

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by upstateguy /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's a great idea. Do it ASAP. I'd love to know if you get the same results. I doubt the Thingee is any different than the UD-10. I only did some informal tests because the Stello is in a different room from the laptop rig that uses the Thingee as a transport, but when I connected the Thingee to the Stello (optical or coax), it sounded the same as straight optical out of my computer, which is the way I usually connect. USG

Just for the record, Stello is using the same USB receiver as Trends.

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just for the record, Stello is using the same USB receiver as Trends.

I know, try it anyway.....

Is there any reason to think that the Thingee is doing it differently than the Trends??

Probably not, but optical out of the Thingee is noticeably better than USB out of the Stello, so I'm thinking that optical out of the Trends might be noticeably better than USB out of the Stello also.

Curious minds want to know.

USG

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by upstateguy /img/forum/go_quote.gif I know, try it anyway..... Is there any reason to think that the Thingee is doing it differently than the Trends?? Probably not, but optical out of the Thingee is noticeably better than USB out of the Stello, so I'm thinking that optical out of the Trends might be noticeably better than USB out of the Stello also. Curious minds want to know. USG

When I just got Trends I did some quick test of it against Stello and to be honest did not notice any marginal difference, may be because of my experience with Transit I didn't expect any either. One day I probably need to give it another listen. There are also variations of USB implementation on different computers. I assume you are using ASIO4ALL, do you get the same results out of different computers?

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT /img/forum/go_quote.gif When I just got Trends I did some quick test of it against Stello and to be honest did not notice any marginal difference, may be because of my experience with Transit I didn't expect any either. One day I probably need to give it another listen. There are also variations of USB implementation on different computers. I assume you are using ASIO4ALL, do you get the same results out of different computers?

I would suggest comparing the Thingee's output to your optical or coaxial implementations, not to the Stello's USB.

Yes, I get the same results from my main computers and the laptop. And IIRC, you once asked me to try this a long time ago.

Regarding the Thingee, I'm usually not a believer in special sauce, so my guess is that it's the same implementation as the Trends.... but I don't know why it should sound better.

USG

 

[Jeremy]

I'm interested to hear your further impressions of the Neko Audio D100 DAC. Have you come to any conclusions?

 

[upstateguy]

My final impressions: Crow does not taste as good as chicken !

After listening to the Neko DAC for a week, I repeated the BenchMark-Stello-GS-1 test I wrote about in post #9.

I used two identically configured and built Shuttle computers to send optical signals to each DAC. I used foobar 9.6.3 and ASIO4ALL on both. I volume balanced the DACs with the foobar volume control. The Stello had to come down -7.61dB on the foobar volume scale.

I used a number of high bit rate internet radio stations and the same music I used on my first evaluation.

First, I'd like to say that until you volume balance you don't have a clue. Second, unless you can A-B during a track, you're relying on your audio memory, and I don't care who you are, your audio memory is lousy, and by the time you disconnect and reconnect cables and reset the volume you have lost your reference point and any impression you think you have is extremely unreliable. This has happened to me more than once and I'm here to tell you that Crow does not taste good. All my initial impressions were nothing more than imagination.

Now the results:

After 2 hours of intense testing and comparing the two DACs with my 650s and GS-1 I have come to the conclusion that I cannot tell the difference between them. Unlike the BenchMark test, which was under meet conditions, this was in a completely silent environment and as far as I'm concerned, these two DACs sound the same. I haven't been able to hear any nuances or differences. Attack, decay, bass, treble, presence, clarity.... all sound the same.

After all the differences I thought I heard with my M^3 rig, it was rather sobering to flip the input switch back and forth on the GS-1 and not hear any differences at all.

Now it may be that after a longer period of listening I might be able to identify some small aspect of differentiation between the two DACs...... but it would really be splitting hairs if I could and might be past the resolution of my system or my ears.

[[ I switched the optical cables and computers and still found no noticeable difference. I could not switch the RCA cables because the Neko uses RCA to XLR, but for the record I used Dayton 18" RCAs on the Stelo and 1.5ft Mogami Cable XLR Female to RCA Male on the Neko. Optical cables were Dayton glass and Dayton plastic, 1.5ft and 12ft respectively. ]]

To complicate matters I disconnected the Neko and connected my Constantine to the GS-1 and compared it to the Stello. The Stello volume had to be lowered -3.22dB to match the Constantine and then.... you guessed it... no noticeable difference listening to the Cream's "White Room" or Vienna Teng's "In Another Life" on an internet radio station at 192kbps. I don't know what happened to all the extra bass I thought I heard from the Stello (that the Constantine didn't have). The vocals might seem crisper on KT Tunstall's "Funnyman", but not by much if at all. Maybe the Stello is a little more refined than the Constantine but I'm too burned out to be sure.

This is all quite surprising to me, ... food for thought......

USG

 

[some1x]

USG: interesting results, but you should avoid using foobar volume control (or any software volume control for that matter) because you'll technically lose bit-perfectness and potentially some dynamics.

 

[skitlets]

Also sounds like you burned out there during the comparisons. Listening fatigue sets in quickly when I'm listening that intently.

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by skitlets /img/forum/go_quote.gif Also sounds like you burned out there during the comparisons. Listening fatigue sets in quickly when I'm listening that intently.

This is the other side of having an A-B switch between DACs. Too much switching becomes counterproductive, and leads to that kind of indecision. I speak from experience, in comparing as many as 4 DACs at once in my home.