Neko D100 : Initial impression

[Mr.Sneis]

It's good to hear that the Stello is still holding up in the face of competition! I found the Stello to have greater detail, slightly brighter than the PicoDAC ~ which wasn't bad to begin with.

I may be able to compare the Stello to DACMagic soon

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by some1x /img/forum/go_quote.gif USG: interesting results, but you should avoid using foobar volume control (or any software volume control for that matter) because you'll technically lose bit-perfectness and potentially some dynamics.

Some bit depth loss would be acceptable since it's only affecting the Stello....

Quote:

Originally Posted by skitlets /img/forum/go_quote.gif Also sounds like you burned out there during the comparisons. Listening fatigue sets in quickly when I'm listening that intently.

To a crisp !

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron_Dreamer /img/forum/go_quote.gif This is the other side of having an A-B switch between DACs. Too much switching becomes counterproductive, and leads to that kind of indecision. I speak from experience, in comparing as many as 4 DACs at once in my home.

I can't even imagine doing 4 DACs at once.....

The problem without switching is that by the time you volume balance and get hooked up you've lost your perspective and impressions become unreliable.... being able to switch back and forth provides a real time reality check.... instantly verifiable as sounding better, worse or the same....

But I know what you mean.

USG

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Sneis /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's good to hear that the Stello is still holding up in the face of competition! I found the Stello to have greater detail, slightly brighter than the PicoDAC ~ which wasn't bad to begin with. I may be able to compare the Stello to DACMagic soon

How did you volume balance the Pico and Stello? What was your testing set up?

USG

 

[PhaedrusX]

very interesting results upstateguy, and hats off for not succumbing to the temptation to force or fabricate differences that you couldn't hear.

i'm glad you threw the Constantine into the ring, as well. considering the big differences in design topologies, chipsets and prices between the DACs, i'm both surprised and unsurprised. i think one of the greatest culprits for the reporting of "huge" differences between gear may be due to lack of volume matching.

i think another member volume matched four CD players and found that the differences he had previously heard all but disappeared.

perhaps the Fletcher-Munson effect is of far greater importance than listeners generally like to admit.

i'd be interested in longer term impressions to see if your opinions or feelings change after you've had a chance to "live with" each DAC for a period of time.

good brain food, for sure.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by upstateguy /img/forum/go_quote.gif no noticeable difference listening to the Cream's "White Room" or Vienna Teng's "In Another Life" on an internet radio station at 192kbps.

Man, you need a better listening material for tasks like that, get some lossless stuff that you are very familiar with, so you can go over and over again doing side by side comparison. And digital volume controls cuts off some informational bits, even with a good foobar implementation, I would use it as a last resort only.

 

[ttan98]

I read over your past postings, I could not find some of the abbrev. equipment you were referring to, can you tell what you mean by:

1. GS-1
2. 650

thanks.

 

[jinp6301]

GS-1 is the headamp GS-1 (HeadAmp - Audio Electronics (GS-1 Headphone Amp/Pre-Amp))

and the 650 is the Sennheiser HD-650 headphone.

Both of these are pretty transparent components.

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT /img/forum/go_quote.gif Man, you need a better listening material for tasks like that, get some lossless stuff that you are very familiar with, so you can go over and over again doing side by side comparison. And digital volume controls cuts off some informational bits, even with a good foobar implementation, I would use it as a last resort only.

LOL Andrew, I happen to be very familar with Cream and Vienna Teng.

See the list on the first post. I included a mix of the kind of stuff I usually listen to, in the bit rates I have it in. Think of it as a real world evaluation. Flac, 320, 256 (Amazon downloads) and internet radio.

I was looking for the JNDs between these DACs.

Now, did you finish your comparison of the Trends optical or coaxial signals Vs direct optical or coax into the Stello? Just report on any JNDs you find and please don't forget to carefully volume balance.

Regarding the loss of some bit depth, even if there was some, and I'm not sure there was, it was only on the Stello... think about that.

USG

 

[Tachikoma]

Just one thing I'd like to suggest, try comparing the DACs on speakers (decent ones if you can help it). Differences in presentation become much more apparent there.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Thanks for your thoughts. I like the Stello DA100 a lot, and consider it a great "bang for the buck". For the Neko D100 to sound similar is not a bad thing, IMHO.

I was thinking that maybe you could spend more time over the next week listening to complete performances with one DAC at a time; as differences in musicality, presentation, detail and transparency sometimes become more obvious as you become more or less involved/immersed in the performance. Especially when the timbre/tone or frequency response are so similar.

And, using "less than lossless" source files means that both could be performing below their limititations, and therefore you may not hear the advantages one DAC has to offer over the other. I know some of your files are FLAC, but others are not, and I would stick with lossless only, or CD or whatever is the highest quality recordings you can get. Only then can you hear all the detail with one DAC that the other might miss, and so forth.

 

[WesMiaw]

Thanks for your thoughts, USG.

With respect to HeadphoneAddict's comment, I did a different sort of comparison with 8-bit video game music and there just wasn't enough for the DACs to differentiate between. Psychoacoustic-based compression is by design going to remove detail from the music in preference of dominant sounds.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by WesMiaw /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks for your thoughts, USG. With respect to HeadphoneAddict's comment, I did a different sort of comparison with 8-bit video game music and there just wasn't enough for the DACs to differentiate between. Psychoacoustic-based compression is by design going to remove detail from the music in preference of dominant sounds.

Agreed - you gave a better example/info than I did.

 

[1UP]

8-bit is a cool genre but agree, speakers and lossless files are a must for a good comparo!

 

[smeggy]

Not really. We're here using headphones and whatever music we have, in whatever form and at the bitrates we have. Neither hypothetical nor abnormal listening situations/conditions mean a damn in real world usage. If we cannot tell a difference under our normal listening conditions then, for all intents and purposes, they are the same. If you really need to try that hard to hear a difference, then essentially there is none, again, under normal circumstances.

 

[atothex]

Quote:

Originally Posted by smeggy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Not really. We're here using headphones and whatever music we have, in whatever form and at the bitrates we have. Neither hypothetical nor abnormal listening situations/conditions mean a damn in real world usage. If we cannot tell a difference under our normal listening conditions then, for all intents and purposes, they are the same. If you really need to try that hard to hear a difference, then essentially there is none, again, under normal circumstances.

That's only real world usage for USG, though. The only mp3's I listen to at home are underground rap. Everything else is CD quality. I don't stream, either.

Anyways, it was an honest review, and taking care to volume match and use good equipment is always appreciated.