[InSides]

A bump for more of my TT saga - I did get the RPM5. Or rather, went in with the intention of getting it.

However, as luck would have it [I recently fried the analog outputs of my 1212m card], the RPM5 unit on display at the store must have had some serious mechanical issues since the dealer could not get it working. To make matters even worse, they had officially dropped their dealership agreement with Pro-Ject, hence the reduced price on the RPM5 [clearance?].

While I wait for E-MU to replace my 0202, I am also left with no vinyl source. That said, I have question to ask that some here might find disturbing.

My dealer also carries Gemini DJ turntables. They currently have a belt-driven model [TT-01] and a direct-driven model [TT-03] on stock. While I realise these are strictly targetted towards clubbing environments, maybe I can get a taste at vinyl at a very small price.

What do you guys think? If I do decide I don't like it, I can always pass it on to my sister [

] and get her to drop CD's on her DJing gigs.

 

[memepool]

I wouldn't bother with the Gemini's. Although I have heard some of their high end models are better, I think these are more likely to turn you off vinyl than give you a taste for it.

A Technics SL1200/1210 would be the best of all the widely accessible "DJ" decks as Origin Live supply an armboard cut-out for Rega style arms so you have an upgrade path that puts this deck in a different class altogether. see here http://www.tonearm.co.uk/Technics_sl..._turntable.pdf

Another long shot if you can't find any dealers selling Turntables locally would be to contact http://www.henleydesigns.co.uk/
who are the UK supplier for Project and describe the problems with the RPM5 as though it's already yours. See if they have any suggestions. These decks are really simply made so if there is anything wrong chances are it's the motor. You may be able to order a replacement direct from Project, any semi skilled technician would be upto this job and you can probably do it youself so long as you're careful. If you feel upto this then perhaps you can haggle the dealer even lower for a non-working deck.

Otherwise you would be better off looking for 2nd hand models like Dual, Thorens or Lenco.

 

[InSides]

Will look into options - if all else fails, I might get the UK distributors, to send me a complete unit.

 

[InSides]

Quote:

Originally Posted by InSides Will look into options - if all else fails, I might get the UK distributors, to send me a complete unit.

Which gives me another idea - if I am to bother with import costs, wouldn't I be better off with trying to get a Rega P3 instead of a Pro-Ject?

 

[memepool]

A Rega P3 would be the classic starter deck yes. Certainly better than the Goldring GR1/2 or most of the Projects. Studio Genesis is a dealer in Greece according to http://www.rega.co.uk so the import costs may be less than shipping from the UK

George Zodiatis
Lycabetus 16
Athens 10673
Greece

Tel: 00 30 1362 3946
Fax: 00 30 1363 1324

Henley Designs should also be able to tell you if there is a distributor for Project nearby as the decks are actually made in the Czech Republic.

Don't discount the Technics SL1200/1210 option either though as I am sure you can find a convenient local Technics dealer. These are ubiquitous all over the world because of their DJ applications. Don't let this put you off though as a mk2 Technics SL1200 is a very good deck that is held back by it's old fashioned tonearm.

With a Rega RB250 tonearm which costs 124UKP and the OL armboard at 39UKP it will out perform the Rega P3 or P5 and most decks upto around 1000UKP.

It would be easy enough to import these from http://www.originlive.co.uk
as they don't weigh much and like it says in the pdf above you can always sell the Technics arm to recoup the money. When funds allow you can further upgrade the tonearm with Michell or Origin Live modifications. This makes the Technics a total audiophile bargain.

 

[InSides]

OK, while searching for the SL-1200MKII today, I got a call from my dealer about a new sealed Pro-Ject Debut II [I think] with a fitted Sumiko Oyster cartridge and a Pro-Ject 8.6 tonearm for ~$110 (!) [can you say clearance?] so I jumped all over it.

Should be arriving by the end of the week. I was pondering over it a bit, but based on recommendations in earlier post, and given this price... the hesitation did not last long.

That said, a question:

Being a entry-level TT, the Debut comes with attached interconnects [should I go ahead and have them replaced [hard-wired] with some better ones?

I have to admin I am quite excited about this.

 

[memepool]

That sounds like a great deal. If the arm leads are hardwired then you are better off leaving them well alone. Rewiring an arm is quite tricky and best left to someone who know's what they are doing. The Project decks arn't really designed for this kind of tweakery they are just plug and play.

The cart sounds like a good one as well. Remeber the most important thing in setting up is to make sure you put the deck on a good solid surface away for vibrations and feedback, ideally it's own wall shelf well far from any speakers. Target, Mana and Sound Organisation make good ones which you can find on ebay but any solid shelf will do.

I would just spend the money on records and enjoy it for a while before you worry about any more upgrades.

 

[InSides]

Quote:

Originally Posted by memepool If the arm leads are hardwired then you are better off leaving them well alone.

My dealer says they have performed that operation quite a few times, as the leads coming out of the TT are soldered to a PCB of some sort, that has the actual tonearm leads on the other side - sort of like Pro-Ject had it prepared for RCA sockets, and then left them out.

The question here - is the upgrade worth even bothering?

Quote:

Originally Posted by memepool I would just spend the money on records and enjoy it for a while before you worry about any more upgrades.

And here comes the next thing. Can you recommend any reliable online stores that would be willing to ship to Macedonia? The pickings are slim here for vinyl - seems you can get anything on a CD. But not vinyl.

Also, one more thing. I can also get the Pro-Ject Phono Box SE for little cash. Would you consider that a worthwhile upgrade over my Rotel RC-03's phono stage?

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by InSides The question here - is the upgrade worth even bothering?

If the lead out cable is attached to a pcb then yes by all means upgrade it as I am sure the stock cable is of the lowest quality so it will definitely be worthwhile

Quote:

Originally Posted by InSides Can you recommend any reliable online stores that would be willing to ship to Macedonia? ?

For recent releases amazon.com will ship worldwide. For hard to find stuff try http://www.gemm.com which is like a sort of napster of the worlds small record stores. Can get expensive on postage from the USA or Japan though so try to find stuff nearby. Then there is always ebay.

It's also worth visiting markets and charity shops as most people will be dumping their vinyl. Ask friends and neighbours. They will usually give it to you for nothing to clear out their attics.

Another thing you might consider since you got such a good deal on the turntable is a proper vacuum cleaning record machine. The Okki Nokki is the cheapest I have seen and does pretty much everything a VPI or Nitty Gritty does for 225UKP.

This is obviously a lot of money but if you can find old cheap 2nd hand vinyl locally it will pay for itself fairly quickly in the amount it saves on stylus replacements alone, never mind the sonic benefits of making really dirty old records almost brand new again.

There are other cheaper manual systems like the Orbitrac but you really can't beat a vacuum system.

Quote:

Originally Posted by InSides I can also get the Pro-Ject Phono Box SE for little cash. Would you consider that a worthwhile upgrade over my Rotel RC-03's phono stage?

No don't waste money on it. The Rotels stage is just as good. You will probably want a new turntable before upgrading that.

 

[InSides]

Quote:

Originally Posted by memepool For hard to find stuff try http://www.gemm.com which is like a sort of napster of the worlds small record stores.

What? They even have some very rare Macedonian records from 20 years ago! I suddenly feel a big hole in my pocket as money is fleeing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by memepool Another thing you might consider since you got such a good deal on the turntable is a proper vacuum cleaning record machine.

Will look into those, thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by memepool No don't waste money on it. The Rotels stage is just as good. You will probably want a new turntable before upgrading that.

I try not to even think of that. If I start at the source, I'll need a new amp/preamp, new speakers... it never ends.

BTW, thanks for the time you took to answer all these questions. It might be a couple more days before I receive the TT, and I am still not sure as to how long it would take them to replace the interconnects... will post an update once I receive it.

Oh, and assuming I have more questions when I do receive it, I hope you all will still be here.

 

[Ori]

Quote:

Originally Posted by InSides how long it would take them to replace the interconnects...

Congrats on the Debut II deal, you can't go wrong with it. Your first upgrade should be the cartridge, which uses a coarse spherical stylus, instead of the more desirable elliptical.
Make sure the upgraded interconnects are shielded microphone cables (Mogami, for example) at least. Specialty cables are probably better, but the cost is higher. Get a thick copper wire for the ground strap (the TT should have a ground terminal).
For good cleaning on a budget buy an Audioquest brush. My local dealer only carries the EDA HUNT brush and I was stuck with tons of dust in the grooves for a long time - until a friend sent me the AQ brush. Man, what a difference!

 

[InSides]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ori Congrats on the Debut II deal, you can't go wrong with it. Your first upgrade should be the cartridge, which uses a coarse spherical stylus, instead of the more desirable elliptical.

I was thinking Shure M97xE. It has an eliptical tip.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ori Make sure the upgraded interconnects are shielded microphone cables (Mogami, for example) at least. Specialty cables are probably better, but the cost is higher. Get a thick copper wire for the ground strap (the TT should have a ground terminal).

I have a spare set of AudioQuest Sidewinder interconnects. Would it work for me to hack one end off and use these? Can I use standard interconnects like these?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ori For good cleaning on a budget buy an Audioquest brush.

Yep. Got the brush also.

 

[memepool]

Audioquest cables are expensive so it seems a shame to destroy one, plus it's not optimised for the low level signal coming from a turntable so it may not even sound that amazing.

Microphone cable is a good idea but why don't you just go with whatever the dealer suggests seeing as it's something they have done before.

If you were going to do it yourself why not order a cable form Origin Live or Incognito or someone that specialises in these kind of cables?

The Shure is a pretty nice cartridge and it's sound should suit your tastes but then again partnering it with a Rotel amp might be too much of a good thing. You might find it too veiled and shut in.

I havn't heard your particular amp but I have had the RA820 in the past and it's got quite a laid back smooth style which was the Rotel "house sound" when I last audioned their stuff. Maybe a more neutral cartridge like the Goldring 1012GX or something more upfront like the Stanton 680EEE, or even the Audio Technica 440 would be better in this instance.

 

[Ori]

Quote:

Originally Posted by InSides I have a spare set of AudioQuest Sidewinder interconnects.

They are not shielded.

The outer "shield" is part of the return wire. Look for a twisted pair with a shield and make sure the total capacitance is less than the specified loading for your cartridge. Music or guitar stores should carry suitable cables. Maybe ask your dealer what they suggest to install for you first.
Quote:

Originally Posted by InSides I was thinking Shure M97xE.

I had that one and it's darn close to the V-15. A good choice if your dealer has it.
Quote:

Originally Posted by memepool RA820 in the past and it's got quite a laid back smooth style which was the Rotel "house sound"

I had the 870BX and it was anything but smooth. More a "brute" than anything...

But I had good results with integrated phono stages. Considering that most low-cost phono stages are implemented around opamps, you cannot expect a much better sound from such an "upgrade". Save you money and experiment with what you have. If you like it, you would want to do more homework regarding upgrades.

 

[Ori]

dupe