[gameboy115]

I finally got my hand on Sony X1060. With all praise about being the best DAP unamped ever, I find I am very disappointed at SQ it offers despite I love the stylish outlook, handy interface so much
 
Long story short. Currently owning E-q7 and SE 530, a past owner of UM3X, IE8 other Top tier IEM etc, Sony X is definitely less resolution, dynamic, extreme narrow sound stage, dull vocal, little artificial, comparing to Kenwood player I owns now. Not a contest or doubt to me. Sadly, it does not has anything to do with sound signature. I tried some AB testing with heavy traffic songs to see how they handle it. Sony X just failed to render the layers ,instrument separation with a lost of big chuck of micro detail, conclude to one word, boring.
 
To be clear, the difference is huge as if you are listening to FM radio comparing with CD player
 
My question is that will LOD help A LOT. What LOD improves?
 
I would really need your opinion
 
Thanks !!
 
P.S My audio file is wav format

 

[129207]

I haven't heard the Kenwood but the X1050 has the most pleasant SQ of all the players I own (Cowon X5L, Sansa Fuze, Sansa Clip, Zune 30, Ipod Photo, Ainol V9000HDA). I even prefer the X to my uDAC... I do use the X's line out to a Headstage Arrow 12HE amp to give my Head Direct RE0 some more body and depth. Have you tried disabling all audio "enhancements" in the audio menu? They are all pointless and ruin SQ in my opinion. I agree with you on the narrow-ish (-ish! not "extreme narrow") soundstage through the headphone out. The LOD out is much better in this regard. 
 
It's always interesting to read about all these totally opposite opinions here on Head-Fi.

 

[Szadzik]

Hey Negakinu,
 
I see you used that LOD you found in China. 
 
Is the Arrow 12HE a perfect size match for the X? It looks like their dimensions are almost identical.
 
What about sound? Is it analytical? I am looking for some portable amp that will give a bit more cold/ analytical sound and add a bit of speed for my ESW9s. I looked at Fiio E7 and a few other chap options but it looks like they will not be much of an improvement for the X's great sound and decided to get something more expensive.
 
Quote:

I haven't heard the Kenwood but the X1050 has the most pleasant SQ of all the players I own (Cowon X5L, Sansa Fuze, Sansa Clip, Zune 30, Ipod Photo, Ainol V9000HDA). I even prefer the X to my uDAC... I do use the X's line out to a Headstage Arrow 12HE amp to give my Head Direct RE0 some more body and depth. Have you tried disabling all audio "enhancements" in the audio menu? They are all pointless and ruin SQ in my opinion. I agree with you on the narrow-ish (-ish! not "extreme narrow") soundstage through the headphone out. The LOD out is much better in this regard. 
 
It's always interesting to read about all these totally opposite opinions here on Head-Fi.

 

[gameboy115]

Thanks for answering.Just want you to know I don't mean to being harsh, and that is just humble opinion which I won't put it in Sony X walkman appreciation thread to hail a flame war

 
I am pretty much a guy prefer non-eq and enhancement all the time, but I i did try my best to fiddle with enhancement stuff to make sure that I was not giving up any chance for improvement, it ended up the default sound without any enhancement was still my favorite, it seems to me any enhancement boasting up some frequency at the same time ruined others.
 
About Kenwood, it is not well known in headfi, but it was out a few years already. The reason I got it was one day I ran into to some Asian audio website which highly recommend over S9, it sold me to pull the trigger, and it become my reference players since day 1.
 
Except sound stage improvement, is your headstage arrow 12HE giving more dynamic power to Sony X, or squeezing more micro detail?
 
Thx!!

 

[129207]

Hey Gameboy115,
 
The Kenwood sounds interesting. Do you have a link?
I have to be careful when I tell you the Arrow through LOD add microdetail. This may be subjective and I don't want to use superlatives and make you spend your hard earned cash on something you eventually might not agree on. The most audible difference is that the Arrow on LOD makes the RE0 sound more effortless and thus lets it represent the entire audio spectrum in a smoother, more "confident" way. This makes the little details easier to spot. That sounds a bit like gibberish right? Let me rephrase. For example, a violin regains it's woody timbre and the piano it's string attack. You can hear the origin of the sound slightly better than through the unamped headphone out. I don't know if this is actual microdetail but it definitely gives the music more life. 
 
 
Szadzik,
 
this size of the Arrow matches the X perfectly. On top of each other they look like they're designed as a combo. Do keep in mind that the "hold" switch on the X is harder to reach when you use the Arrow. I don't mind though. It's a beautiful combo. The sound? Not analytical. The Sony X has a warm and smooth sound and the Arrow brings this out even more. Makes it wider and smoother but doesn't add any "coldness". If you want analytical I suggest trying the S:Flo2's line out to a more analytical amp. The Arrow is very neutral but I always use the bass boost to give my RE0 a better range. The RE0 is pretty bass-light unamped. 

 

[Szadzik]

Hey,
 
Thanks for the impressions. I am very happy with the Sony, but I recently got Sennheiser MX980 earbuds and they are a bit more analytical/ cold than the ESW9s and I can say I even like the sound more out of the earbuds because of that.
 
That is why I am looking for an amp that will give me a bit more analytical sound out of the ESW9s or I will have to look for something new in full-size portable.
 
Quote:

Szadzik,
 
this size of the Arrow matches the X perfectly. On top of each other they look like they're designed as a combo. Do keep in mind that the "hold" switch on the X is harder to reach when you use the Arrow. I don't mind though. It's a beautiful combo. The sound? Not analytical. The Sony X has a warm and smooth sound and the Arrow brings this out even more. Makes it wider and smoother but doesn't add any "coldness". If you want analytical I suggest trying the S:Flo2's line out to a more analytical amp. The Arrow is very neutral but I always use the bass boost to give my RE0 a better range. The RE0 is pretty bass-light unamped. 

 

[nonsupremous]

Regarding the LOD for the Walkman.  I have some concerns about it and maybe someone in this thread can give me some insight. 
 
I just got the Fiio L5 for my Walkman to hook up to the E7.  It did make a tremendous difference between the HO and LOD.  But here's where my issue comes in.  While testing my third song, I noticed strange signal fluctuations.  The song was Kingdom Come, Get it On.  This is an older song and perhaps not the highest quality production.  So I went on to my next song, Pink Floyd's Comfortably Numb.  This song also also had a lot of signal drop on every kick drum note through the entire song. 
 
So my natural thought was there's something wrong with the E7.  So I hooked it up to my Total Bithead and the exact same thing happened on both songs. 
 
The Walkman that I'm using is the NWZ S639.  Perhaps this model was never actually intended to be used with an LOD? 
 
One thing I didn't consider last night was the fact that I had the EQ on.  Is it possible that the EQ puts too much signal into the LOD and the Amp is just trying to compensate?  It's like listening to an FM signal when you're getting too far from the tower.  Loud, soft, loud, soft.  I have never run into this issue before so I am really curious. 
 
Anyone have any ideas or ever experience the same problem?

 

[Danneq]

 
Quote:

The Kenwood sounds interesting. Do you have a link?

 
Sorry to butt in, but I can provide some links to threads about the Kenwood players. I recently bought a used Kenwood HD20GA7 (a model released in 2005), and the sound it produces beats my Cowon S9, Sansa View, Creative Zen Vision:M and Creative Zen Touch. I have not had the opportunity of comparing it directly to my iRiver H120 yet.
 
The Kenwood hard disk based DAP:s are considered to be good when it comes to sound with a drawback being that they produced white noise/hiss with headphones that are sensitive. They were sold from 2005 until around 2008. After that Kenwood has changed to flash memory based DAP:s and apparently those do not sound as good as the older HDD player.
 
The first model released was the HD20GA7 with a 20GB hard disk.
Here is a review from 2005.
 
There was also a 30GB version released, called HD30GA7 (or GA9, I am not sure).
 
In 2007 the HD30GB9 was released. It looked the same as the earlier models, but some improvements had been made. Among them the hiss had been reduced.
 
Here are some threads about the HD30GB9:
 
Impressions

Review in progress from 2007 (never finished, but some pictures)
 
Questions about the HD30GB9

One more thread (concerning the HD30GB9 and headphones)
 
 
Kenwood also released a smaller model with a 10GB microdrive - the HD10GB7
 
The last models released were the 60GB versions - the HD60GD9 and HD60GEC (I think the names are correct).
 
If you get an opportunity to try a Kenwood HDD player I say "go for it!" There might be better sounding players nowadays with the S:flo2 and the HifiMan, but the Kenwood HDD DAP:s are too good to be forgotten!

 

[129207]

Danneq, thanks for the great info!

 

[Blasto_Brandino]

Yes the LOD does that on all my Walkman players (and on everyone elses Walkman who uses a LOD, ANY LOD), you need to keep all bass enhancements low and use an amp with a bass boost, I bought a Lisa III XP,That was my solution, but on my PA2V2 I never really had any problems because I keep the bass down by default.
 
Quote:

Regarding the LOD for the Walkman.  I have some concerns about it and maybe someone in this thread can give me some insight. 
 
I just got the Fiio L5 for my Walkman to hook up to the E7.  It did make a tremendous difference between the HO and LOD.  But here's where my issue comes in.  While testing my third song, I noticed strange signal fluctuations.  The song was Kingdom Come, Get it On.  This is an older song and perhaps not the highest quality production.  So I went on to my next song, Pink Floyd's Comfortably Numb.  This song also also had a lot of signal drop on every kick drum note through the entire song. 
 
So my natural thought was there's something wrong with the E7.  So I hooked it up to my Total Bithead and the exact same thing happened on both songs. 
 
The Walkman that I'm using is the NWZ S639.  Perhaps this model was never actually intended to be used with an LOD? 
 
One thing I didn't consider last night was the fact that I had the EQ on.  Is it possible that the EQ puts too much signal into the LOD and the Amp is just trying to compensate?  It's like listening to an FM signal when you're getting too far from the tower.  Loud, soft, loud, soft.  I have never run into this issue before so I am really curious. 
 
Anyone have any ideas or ever experience the same problem?

 

[gameboy115]

Cool. Thanks for letting me know what amped Sony X being capable of. I will give some thought to adding an amp on it.
 
Quote:

Hey Gameboy115,
 
The Kenwood sounds interesting. Do you have a link?
I have to be careful when I tell you the Arrow through LOD add microdetail. This may be subjective and I don't want to use superlatives and make you spend your hard earned cash on something you eventually might not agree on. The most audible difference is that the Arrow on LOD makes the RE0 sound more effortless and thus lets it represent the entire audio spectrum in a smoother, more "confident" way. This makes the little details easier to spot. That sounds a bit like gibberish right? Let me rephrase. For example, a violin regains it's woody timbre and the piano it's string attack. You can hear the origin of the sound slightly better than through the unamped headphone out. I don't know if this is actual microdetail but it definitely gives the music more life. 
 
 
Szadzik,
 
this size of the Arrow matches the X perfectly. On top of each other they look like they're designed as a combo. Do keep in mind that the "hold" switch on the X is harder to reach when you use the Arrow. I don't mind though. It's a beautiful combo. The sound? Not analytical. The Sony X has a warm and smooth sound and the Arrow brings this out even more. Makes it wider and smoother but doesn't add any "coldness". If you want analytical I suggest trying the S:Flo2's line out to a more analytical amp. The Arrow is very neutral but I always use the bass boost to give my RE0 a better range. The RE0 is pretty bass-light unamped. 

 

[nonsupremous]

Thanks, I'm glad it's just not an issue with this model.  I do typically keep my clear bass set at +2, so that makes sense.  I will also look at the Lisa III XP,  good amp?
 
Quote:

Yes the LOD does that on all my Walkman players (and on everyone elses Walkman who uses a LOD, ANY LOD), you need to keep all bass enhancements low and use an amp with a bass boost, I bought a Lisa III XP,That was my solution, but on my PA2V2 I never really had any problems because I keep the bass down by default.
 

 

 

[Blasto_Brandino]

I'm afraid all Walkmans i've used are susceptible to the bass thing.  The Lisa III XP is a brick, I mean HUGE it is also 650$ and an additional 350 for the LLP power supply, I'd stick with the Fiio, the E7 has a bass boost and has good power too, I've read it runs the HD650's well

 

[shigzeo]

If you let your X1060 go, please keep me in mind. 

 

[gameboy115]

Quote:

If you let your X1060 go, please keep me in mind. 

Will do