[XXII]

My opinion: Spend it all on a (second hand) Grado RS-1 for <$550 (maybe save on the head-fi donation for later

). It sounds like what you want. If you don't like it then sell it for the same price. If you do like it, upgrade the rest of your rig later...

btw...I don't think you're asking a lot for a new member...you've detailed what you like and don't like..it's a lot better than people who say a few lines and then expect you to recommend something for them

and I don't think anyone would say "oh, you sound like a noob. Just buy some $80 cans and you'll be set." to you....a lot of people may be headphone noobs but have speaker setups worth many times more...

 

[Tasty]

Hey champ... welcome to the boards! Most people here are completely happy to help people who've put in some serious thought as to what they want, so you've definitely gotten off on the right foot. As to people who don't think that headphones are worth their dollar... well, if you're happy with it, why bother with them right?

I know you said that you might not be looking for an amp, but I'm going to go along with some of the other folks here who've suggested that getting one would do you some good. I personally found that proper amplification can quite drastically improve the sound quality of a headphone... and if you're going to drop $500 on one 'high-end' one, you're quite surely going to want an amp eventually.

I've got fairly limited experience with the numerous headphones compared to many of the members here, but of the ones that I've tried (in addition to those in my sig, I've also played around with Beyer 770s, 880s and 990s, as well as AKG k701s and various Audio Technicas, Grados, Senns and IEMs), I'm going to go with Grados as well. I happen to have a liking to hardstyle and similar genres, and nothing really gets me nodding like the Grados have. Kamui, anyone?

The usual story: the Grados generally have a forward presentation which makes you feel like you've got front row seats to a rock concert. They've got clean and punchy bass without much bloat at all and a very lush midrange. They're very fun and engaging cans indeed. Personally, I'd turn to my Denons if I felt like a bit of analytical listening, jazz or vocals, but I'd slap the Grados on if I feel like listening to dance or rock music.

... which reminds me: closed cans are usually less preferred to open cans for some percieved reduction in SQ (largely because of resonance issues), but many would agree that a good pair of closed cans are nonetheless capable of being thoroughly proper headphones. One example of such a can is the Denon D5000, which I so happen to be using. To my ears they're richer, more detailed and accurate than any of my other cans by far. I don't recommend it for your particular tastes, but I felt it might be good to suggest that closed cans aren't all that bad as you believe them to be.

Back to the Grados though...

Most people here would recommend you the RS-1s, which I would have no problem agreeing with... but with your budget, you might want to go with the 225s (which many report do fine without an amp) for now because you'd not be able to squeeze in an amp with the price of an RS-1. While it's great to take your time and read as much as you can about the headphones, the best option of course is to try before you buy, and preferably listen to your own tracks so that you know precisely what you're getting yourself into. In the end, you'll certainly find that the only thing you can really trust for headphones are your own ears.

I don't think I'd be a competant advisor with regard to amps for the Grados - my two main amps built by Justin of Headamp.com have served me very well since my initial foray into headphones, but I wouldn't be sure if they were the best options. No matter, I'm sure the other members would provide you with sound advice.

Good luck, and happy hunting!

 

[xdeadpixel]

Hi!

Thanks for your replies all. You are all very welcoming

You're really wanting to kill my wallet yall. Lemme tell ya!!! I've looked into the grado RS-1 series, and it seems like it might be what I want (but they are UGLY, haha.). Do I NEED an amp though? Will *I* need an amp? Because, if I can pull off a month or so without an amp, and it's worth it, I might have another $200 or so to drop on an amp in two paychecks.

I've also looked into the audio technicas. They look decent as well, but as per what I've heard, it might sacrifice a LITTLE too much bass for midrange.

And how are the aforementioned cans on rap/hip hop? Mostly rock lovers I see

I've also added two more pieces of info that might help.

ANDD...Honestly. I've never heard a pair of high quality cans. The best i"ve heard are the DT770's. Is the jump in several hundred REALLY going to be worth it for an audio lover like me?

IS BUYING THE RS-1'S WORTHLESS IF I INTEND TO PLAY OUT OF A MOBO HD AUDIO JACK ON MY PC? Or I also have a bigger jack on my z-5500 control pod. Either way, is it worth it?

 

[XXII]

Quote:

Originally Posted by xdeadpixel /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi! Thanks for your replies all. You are all very welcoming You're really wanting to kill my wallet yall. Lemme tell ya!!! I've looked into the grado RS-1 series, and it seems like it might be what I want (but they are UGLY, haha.). Do I NEED an amp though? Will *I* need an amp? Because, if I can pull off a month or so without an amp, and it's worth it, I might have another $200 or so to drop on an amp in two paychecks. I've also looked into the audio technicas. They look decent as well, but as per what I've heard, it might sacrifice a LITTLE too much bass for midrange. And how are the aforementioned cans on rap/hip hop? Mostly rock lovers I see I've also added two more pieces of info that might help. ANDD...Honestly. I've never heard a pair of high quality cans. The best i"ve heard are the DT770's. Is the jump in several hundred REALLY going to be worth it for an audio lover like me? IS BUYING THE RS-1'S WORTHLESS IF I INTEND TO PLAY OUT OF A MOBO HD AUDIO JACK ON MY PC? Or I also have a bigger jack on my z-5500 control pod. Either way, is it worth it?

Ugly???? I'm afraid that's sacrilege...

The RS-1 probably is worth it if you intend at some point to get an amp and a better source...

 

[xdeadpixel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by XXII /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ugly???? I'm afraid that's sacrilege... The RS-1 probably is worth it if you intend at some point to get an amp and a better source...

I was afraid somebody was going to say that! They've got a real vintage look to 'em. I guess I'm just modern!

Better souce? Naw. Not for a while.

Amp? Maybe!

 

[xdeadpixel]

I think I'm going to try the RS-1's. I'm going to find a used pair in near-perfect condition at a good price, so I can sell em' if I don't like 'em. But I've read descriptions on them compared to others in the bracket, and they sound exactly like what I'm looking for.

And if I love 'em, I'll buy an amp.

P.S. Grado lower ya damn prices!

 

[subtle]

When you hear what Grado's are capable of, you'll realize why they don't need to lower their prices (European buyers the exception).

I listen to a lot of dance/techno/house/electronica and the only two brands that really do it for me with all genres of "dance music" are Grado and Audio-Technica. I started with the RS-1 and owned it for many years until moving up to the PS-1 a few months ago. The RS-1 is what you are after. The only thing Grado's lack is soundstage, which the AT's provide, however the Grado midrange is just a tad bit sweeter and fuzzier than that of the AT's. You don't need an amp for the RS-1's. They will sound fantastic straight out of your sound card, but you will notice an improvement once you have the funds to apply towards a decent amp. I personally wouldn't waste my time or money looking at amps under $300. I'd rather hold off and get something a little more dedicated and serious down the line. With Grado's, the amp can be last on your list to obtain because they are so easy to drive. I would start saving for a quality source and purchase that long before I would be shopping for amps.

What sound card do you have exactly? Is this just some onboard audio from your motherboard? If so, I would recommend you spend ~$100 and pick up the Asus Xonar D1 from some place like newegg.com, or look for an old M-Audio Revolution 7.1 card on ebay. You should be able to find the Revolution for under $50.

 

[xdeadpixel]

Hi!

Thanks for your reply subtle.

I prefer more of a "techy" sound. A "sweet" midrange doesn't sound appealing. Do the grados provide a techy sound? Hardstyle in general is pretty techy to me. So is electro house. And that's why I want headphones to match.

As for soundstage, I'm a hardcore sober raver always in the front row. Does this suit me?

As for source, that's where I'm confused. Talking with people on other forums, everybody says the only purpose of a soundcard is for 7.1 and things like that. Everybody says that the HD jack on my mobo will provide 100% for music in this sense.

And honestly, what exactly is put into these headphones that is so expensive? They look pretty cheap, besides the wood. I heard they feel cheaply made as well, and that they are extremely uncomfortable.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Have you decided on the RS-1 yet? They are good for your music, however, when I read your first post, I thought the Sony MDR-SA5000 might be more to your liking. The SA500 is crisper and drier than the RS-1 and the lows don't have the Grado mid-bass hump. The mids aren't as sweet, but you might prefer that.

I don't mean to knock the RS-1; it is one of my favorites. But for the music you listen to, the SA5000 might be a better fit and it costs less.

If you get either, however, you should look into an amp. For what you describe, a neutral, hard-hitting solid state amp might fit your tastes. Something like the Gilmore Lite or Eddie Current EC/SS might be exactly what you're looking for. If you're working with a budget of maybe $700, you can just about pull it off.

If you're set on the RS-1, take a look at Audiogon. You can usually find a used pair there in the $500 range.

 

[xdeadpixel]

Hi!

Thanks for your reply Erik.

Why are amps to power a small pair of headphones as expensive as amps that power loud speakers and subwoofers? What's solid state vs tube? And how does power affect sound?

Thanks

 

[xdeadpixel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eecummings /img/forum/go_quote.gif donati nghea(a phil anthr opi cge sture;; dphones

Hi!

Could you elaborate on that?

**

Also, if I had a better understanding of the terms such as dry or warm, I think it would be able to help me easier. I've read on the terms, but I think I'd have to hear the differences between both to know.

Any ways to go about this?

 

[subtle]

What exactly is a "techy" sound to you? Please describe what you mean, the traits, when you refer to a sound as techy.

The comfort issue is a Grado stereotype that is so overblown IMO. First off, the RS-1's absolutely need flat pads. That's an extra cost, only ~$30 from TTVJ, you are going to run in to because they now come from the factory with the bowl pads. I firmly believe that most of the impressions based on lack of comfort come from A) people that have only used Grado's with bowl pads and B) people that have used pads, whether they be flats or bowls, that haven't been washed at least once to soften them up. I can see how after awhile the bowl pads might become irritating for some people's ears, but I just can't see how with the flats as they literally just rest on top of your ears and there is no edge to press in to them like there is with the bowls.

The only problem you are going to run in to, with the sound you are looking for, is that you can't find everything in one headphone brand, at least IME. The Grado's excel by providing this amazing dynamic palpable energy to the sound...some call it the fuzz. It's as though you can taste the notes, like they have this body to them. That's what I love so much about Grado's with techno. I'm willing to give up the soundstage in order to get that meatiness to the sound. On the other hand, soundstage is extremely important for the transients and sweeps found in techno, so it's always a trade off. This is why I currently own both the PS-1 and L3000 yet can't seem to settle on only one of the two. The PS-1 gives me that Grado edge I'm looking for, but the L3000 has an amazing soundstage that really adds extra depth and layers to techno. Then you have to also consider that one is an open design and the other closed. Despite the AT's bringing soundstage to the party, they still have traits of the closed headphone sound and therefore don't provide the some amount of air to the music that the Grado does. There's always a trade off somewhere and you're going to have to experiment over the next few months to see exactly which brand does it for you. I still stand by my recommendation though to start with the RS-1's. Yeah first impressions based on sight will be that they headphones "look cheap", however once you get them in your hands you won't feel the same. The quality of the wood is quite nice, as well as the leather headband, but you're really paying for the magic in the driver.

Regarding your comments on source, "everybody" are not enthusiasts. Sure you going to find many people telling you that the HD jack on your mobo will be adequate, which it would be, however if you're really looking to extract the maximum from your music you're going to need a dedicated source. I only suggested those two cards to you because they're within your budget, otherwise I would have recommended a dedicated DAC or combo like the Cambridge 840C. That's out of your price range though.

Just go ahead and get the headphones and try them with the jack on your motherboard. Perhaps you'll be blown away and won't feel an upgrade is necessary. Sometimes ignorance really is bliss.

 

[subtle]

Cool. The forum really needed another pseudo-intellectual.

 

[xdeadpixel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by subtle /img/forum/go_quote.gif What exactly is a "techy" sound to you? Please describe what you mean, the traits, when you refer to a sound as techy. The comfort issue is a Grado stereotype that is so overblown IMO. First off, the RS-1's absolutely need flat pads. That's an extra cost, only ~$30 from TTVJ, you are going to run in to because they now come from the factory with the bowl pads. I firmly believe that most of the impressions based on lack of comfort come from A) people that have only used Grado's with bowl pads and B) people that have used pads, whether they be flats or bowls, that haven't been washed at least once to soften them up. I can see how after awhile the bowl pads might become irritating for some people's ears, but I just can't see how with the flats as they literally just rest on top of your ears and there is no edge to press in to them like there is with the bowls. The only problem you are going to run in to, with the sound you are looking for, is that you can't find everything in one headphone brand, at least IME. The Grado's excel by providing this amazing dynamic palpable energy to the sound...some call it the fuzz. It's as though you can taste the notes, like they have this body to them. That's what I love so much about Grado's with techno. I'm willing to give up the soundstage in order to get that meatiness to the sound. On the other hand, soundstage is extremely important for the transients and sweeps found in techno, so it's always a trade off. This is why I currently own both the PS-1 and L3000 yet can't seem to settle on only one of the two. The PS-1 gives me that Grado edge I'm looking for, but the L3000 has an amazing soundstage that really adds extra depth and layers to techno. Then you have to also consider that one is an open design and the other closed. Despite the AT's bringing soundstage to the party, they still have traits of the closed headphone sound and therefore don't provide the some amount of air to the music that the Grado does. There's always a trade off somewhere and you're going to have to experiment over the next few months to see exactly which brand does it for you. I still stand by my recommendation though to start with the RS-1's. Yeah first impressions based on sight will be that they headphones "look cheap", however once you get them in your hands you won't feel the same. The quality of the wood is quite nice, as well as the leather headband, but you're really paying for the magic in the driver. Regarding your comments on source, "everybody" are not enthusiasts. Sure you going to find many people telling you that the HD jack on your mobo will be adequate, which it would be, however if you're really looking to extract the maximum from your music you're going to need a dedicated source. I only suggested those two cards to you because they're within your budget, otherwise I would have recommended a dedicated DAC or combo like the Cambridge 840C. That's out of your price range though. Just go ahead and get the headphones and try them with the jack on your motherboard. Perhaps you'll be blown away and won't feel an upgrade is necessary. Sometimes ignorance really is bliss.

Hi there. I really appreciate the response.

I wish I could describe what I mean. I find it impossible to explain though..seriously. I put as much thought as possible into these posts. I'm probably way off, so I won't bother yet until I get more knowledge.

So I think I'm going to try to find the RS-1's used. Like ya said, everything is a trade off, and I honestly believe that I'll have to listen to make a further decision. I'm too over-analytical when I spend money!

Thanks for your help! Now to find 'em for under $500. Ebay has em high.

**

EEcummings, are you typing in another language?

 

[Tasty]

I can't be certain, but I believe the OP might be talking about what would typically be represented by a solid state amp when he says techy: a dry, analytical sound with none of that smoothness that tubes are so famous for. If I were to consider a headphone equivalent, the SA5000 certainly would fit that bill, if my assumptions were correct.

Still, I'd go for the RS-1s for that raw energy they impart to dance music. I've used a Gilmore Lite and am now using its big brother the GS-1 and am fairly confident that the Headamp amplifiers could suit your needs - they're analytical and add little warmth to the sound. I recall one poster saying that the Gilmore Lite had such a lack of warmth that his cans sounded electronic. While that was certainly meant to be derogatory to some extent, you may consider it to be a compliment considering your preference of music is pretty much all electronic.

The Gilmore Lite retails at $399 from Headamp.com and has a build time. It's always a good idea to keep your eyes peeled on the For Sale subforums of this site, but be aware that the Headamp products tend to appear a bit less often than other amplifiers for one reason or another.

I know you've probably seen it, but might I suggest you take a look at http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/des...ossary-220770/ again. I found it to be a very useful starting point in understanding jargon.What precisely something means however, you'll have to listen with your own ears to be sure.

[EDIT] Oh, and do sit on the amp for a while. Like subtle said, ignorance is bliss.