[9VARZ]

Hi all!
 
As what my thread title says, I'm after a first setup (after many years of using integrated sound, cheap sound cards and other silly configurations of the same thing). So I'll need help from those who have had practical listening experience over a wide range of stuff (ideally entry level, high end and anything else in-between).
 
The stuff I listen to comes across as very layered and textured sounding, despite most of them being Japanese recordings. They also seem to emphasise a certain quickness in pace and leading edge attack and present, quite aggressively, a need to express itself over a wide and deep soundstage. Can't quite place a genre type on them although most are anime soundtracks.
 
As such, I'm looking for a completely new headphones setup (USB DAC, I/C, amp, cans OR USB DAC/AMP+cans) that can do PRaT, has an open, airy top, tight and punchy low end, a hint of forward-sounding mids as well as something that is good at showing  low-level detail.
 
However, being a first setup, I'm afraid I do not have an overwhelming budget (£500 but I can stretch a bit only for the electronics side). I intend to buy the setup in stages also, getting the headphones first (running unamped via laptop headphone out for a few months) and then the electronics later (at one shot), making something of an average of about £250 to £280 each spend.
 
No big preferences but only on the condition that the cans are comfortable to wear for very long stints (whole day, 8 to 12 hours). As for the electronics, the higher the resolution, the better (but not necessary, even though I do enjoy listening to those 24/176.4 RR tracks rather frequently).
 
Suggestions, anyone?

 
Side note: My local shop (where I can demo things) only stocks Sennheiser, Grado and possibly Goldring (although I have a slight bias against closed cans). Been meaning to try the ATH-AD700 and AD900 but to no avail. Sources and amps are few and far between also. So far, the only complete "budget" setup I've heard (or A/B) is the HD558/HD598/SR125 + Rega Ear + Arcam rDAC. Didn't like the lack of pace from (presumably) the rDAC. I'll be confirming my suspicions with a different source over this week/weekend when time permits.
 
The rest of my hunt really depends on you to give me enough confidence to take the plunge and try some distance shopping online.

 

[9VARZ]

I hope it's not a case of TLDR? Anyone wiling to help? Or am I looking for a (house) sound signature that can't be found at this level?

 

[vonjuergen]

 
...open, airy top, tight and punchy low end, a hint of forward-sounding mids as well as something that is good at showing  low-level detail...
 
punchy low end is only possible with closed cans in your price range.
 
The Audio Technica M50 do PRaT really well, have one of the deepest strongest bass of all cans, do have slightly recessed mids, and slightly metallic highs. But the M50 is considered as the best bang/buck phone by most head-fiers at the moment, and does less wrong than other more expensive cans. You can hear them at pro-audio-stores or simply but them with amazon (money back guarantee). You can use the M50 out of your laptop/ipod/mobile and buy a Nuforce HDP as USB/AMP source later. Its a closed phone, so you can use it on the go aswell.
 
More resolution, sounstage, forward mids, airy highs, less bass quantity, little less fun with the open Sennheiser HD600 (dont go with the HD650 with your budget). Amp will be mandatory. That will be the USB-DAC-AMP Nuforce HDP. Also considered as DAC/AMP bestbuy at the moment and synergizes with the HD600 really well.
 
Good luck !
 
J

 

[9VARZ]

Hi J!
 
Noted! AFAIK, the 650 are pretty notorious to drive so it's very likely I'll skip that anyway as I definitely can't afford better amps for them with my measley budget.
 
I'll try the 600 if I can to see if it suits me better or not (as the M50 "sounds" bass heavy, from the way you put it > may not be my liking). I've already scheduled to go listen to the M50 at a pro-shop later today (hope I'll be able to get something good out of it).
 
Does the HD600 respond well to amp changes? I *might* be able to get more bass out of it with a slightly heavier sounding amp or DAC, I think. Of which, a DAC + integrated headphone amp will definitely be a must at some point in time for me anyway.

 

[9VARZ]

Oh yes...electronics.
 
If I'm to go with the HD600, should I look at the new 32-bit flavours as well? Stuff like Audio-GD NFB-11, Wyred 4 Sound DAC2 (I know this is out of my budget for now), etc? (Basically stuff that uses the new 32-bit ESS chips)

 

[Currawong]

You may like Grados, going by your description.  However, as they sit on your ears, not around, they can get uncomfortable after a while. They have a much more in-your-face sound than Sennheisers (unless you have a very expensive rig).  The good thing is, they'll run out of everything, even an iPod quite well, so you can see if you like them before deciding on other gear.

 

[vonjuergen]

make sure the hd600 is properly amped - otherwise they wont shine
 
HDP alternative : M2 Tech hiface + quality cable + gamma2 (DIY, good PRaT) + quality IC + chinese tube amp (little bit more bass)
 
with substanial better amping (quality, balanced) you wont get that much more quantity - you only get more quality.
 
in long term, the hd600 is a classic for a reason. excellent mids + fatigue free sound + more. a lot of head fiers return to hd580/600/650 after a long expensive journey of different tastes and types, cause the hd600 has such a quality that counts in the long term. its like with studio speakers - first they sound too natural and kind of boring. but after a long journey with high end speakers (colouration, timing and imaging issues) people are fed up with it, recognise true quality (trained ears then) and return to studio speakers in the end.
 
Grados are fast, fun and bright and uncomfortable, but they dont have bass - i prefer hd600 over sr225. Still M50 have much better PRaT.

 

[vonjuergen]

... if you are comparing 2 phones in the store dont change every 20 seconds - listen to the full song with one can, and then with the other. the first 20 second impression is always wrong in the  long term.

 

[9VARZ]

@Currawong, I've tried Grados and they didn't sound quite right to me for first impressions. And they were absolutely awful where ergonomics are concerned (pinch my ears too much). I'll be popping by the store later today and maybe giving them yet another shot. (Second) Impressions to come later!
 
@vonjuergen: I'll bear in mind about the anti-20 seconds rule when I test the M50 later today.

 

[vonjuergen]

...listening to hd600 right now, and its actually punchier and clearly better overall than M50, just lacking in bass quantity and lack of deepest bass -  but thats okay overall, and on good recordings kickdrums are really good.

 

[9VARZ]

The M50 is a bit of a let down for me, really. I admit didn't have the opportunity to test them driven, though.
 
The overwhelming warmth is certainly not something I'll appreciate.
 
Looks like I'll go with the HD600 (it's really cheap now anyway).
 
@vonjuergen: What source and amp are you using to drive them at the moment?
 
@Currawong: Tried the SR225 vs HD598 again today. No go for the 225 as it doesn't "open up" enough. If there is anything I don't like about its sonic quality, it is the feeling of claustrophobicness in the way it carries itself. I'll want something with more expanse spatially, especially on the top end (to hear more of the ambience) but contrasted against forward mids (to bring the performers closer to me).

 

[Currawong]

Well, it was worth a shot. Probably doesn't help that I have what amounts to being a Grado, very heavily modified, on a high-end rig, where it sounds vastly more "open".  
 
What you'll find with the HD-600s is, when under-driven, tracks that should sound "wide" have all the sound seemingly in the middle.  I have a couple of live recordings where, on a good rig, it sounds like you are in the middle of the audience, but at the back when using a poor amp and source.  When you get them with a half-decent "mid-range" amp and the source is good, they really liven up.  They tend to reflect the sound and capabilities of the equipment well.

 

[9VARZ]

@Currawong:
 
Hmm....Noted. Any suggestions what would possibly be a good combi with the 600, then? Sources, ICs and amps-wise...

 

[vonjuergen]

i use them with a gilmore lite and a rme studio dac. but i bought the gilmore lite for the sr225 acutally and the hd600 came later
 
today i would simply go with a nuforce HDP. if you want to have separates then go with tube amps (valve amps in your case). just search the HEADPHONE AMPS forum for inexpensive tube amps for hd600. source: gamma2 or search in the DEDICATED SOURCE COMPONENTS forum
 
good luck 
 
J
 

 

[9VARZ]

Quote:

i use them with a gilmore lite and a rme studio dac. but i bought the gilmore lite for the sr225 acutally and the hd600 came later
 
today i would simply go with a nuforce HDP. if you want to have separates then go with tube amps (valve amps in your case). just search the HEADPHONE AMPS forum for inexpensive tube amps for hd600. source: gamma2 or search in the DEDICATED SOURCE COMPONENTS forum
 
good luck 
 
J
 

 
Quote:

As of March 2010, the Gilmore Lite is sold out forever.  Thank you for supporting this amp for nearly 6 years.

 
Oh dear..Guess I'll try to look up the HDP.
 
I'm also thinking of maybe the Rega Ear (if I like it) or Creek OBH-11 with HRT Streamer II+. But I have a feeling the cost of the interconnects would murder my bank balance, though.
 
Also, any other DACs and amps or "one boxes" I should consider? Stuff like ESI Dr. DAC Prime, maybe?
 
Tubes...I have a personal vendetta against tubes, I think. *Almost* everytime I give them a go, their overwhelming warmness is a killjoy for me.
 
I say *almost* because it was funny how I didn't get this impression with an Audionet + Kronzilla DX + Clearer Audio Silverline + Wilson Benesch get-go. But I don't have such a nice house to keep them in, nor the money to afford even a tube on the Krons.