Need help - X-can V3 w/PF mod or x-can V8
Nov 23, 2008 at 6:27 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 17

krisno

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Hi

I had the stock V8 before, it was just too laid back(!) compared to the V3, but it had alot more bass and better separation. I sold it, but i miss tubes.. so?

V3 with Pink Floyd mod's or V8 stock.... which is best?

and what kind of mod can be done to make the V8 MORE forward??

Kris

P.S. I guess many people here have tried both, please let me know of your opinions.
 
Nov 24, 2008 at 2:40 AM Post #2 of 17

Gradofan2

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Quote:

Originally Posted by krisno /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Hi

I had the stock V8 before, it was just too laid back(!) compared to the V3, but it had alot more bass and better separation. I sold it, but i miss tubes.. so?

V3 with Pink Floyd mod's or V8 stock.... which is best?

and what kind of mod can be done to make the V8 MORE forward??

Kris

P.S. I guess many people here have tried both, please let me know of your opinions.



It depends... on whether you're going to drive high or low impedance phones. The v8 is superior with low impedance phones - it is exceptional with the D5000s (all Denons), but a bit underpowered with Senns. The v3 is superior with high impedance phones - great with Senns.

You could probably try the Pinkfloyd mods to warm it a bit and bring it a bit forward. I'd start with the Saratov 6H23N-EB tubes, or maybe some Amperex tubes.
 
Nov 24, 2008 at 3:22 PM Post #3 of 17

krisno

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Dear gradofan

As I said, I miss tubes.... so I will make one 'last' shot at it. I also want something simple and nice looking. The X-can v3 and v8 are nice looking.

1: If you remove the DAC, is the V8 just a V3 without transistors in the output path? Is it that simple, and a somewhat upgraded solid stage output?? How big can the difference be.

I thought the V8 was 'harsher' in the top-end than the V3, and it was so very much laid back.

2: (my main question)..... If I buy a V3 today, and inject the Pink Floyd mod's and swap out the tube with some Sylvania. + get another littlie pinkie. Will that create a good amp, and better than stock v8??? Considering I use the same dac.

I won't get the V8 and mod it considering it costs more for the dac as well...

Or is this a step backwards??

thanks mate!

K
 
Nov 25, 2008 at 12:13 AM Post #4 of 17

Gradofan2

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Quote:

Originally Posted by krisno /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Dear gradofan

As I said, I miss tubes.... so I will make one 'last' shot at it. I also want something simple and nice looking. The X-can v3 and v8 are nice looking.

1: If you remove the DAC, is the V8 just a V3 without transistors in the output path? Is it that simple, and a somewhat upgraded solid stage output?? How big can the difference be.

I thought the V8 was 'harsher' in the top-end than the V3, and it was so very much laid back.

2: (my main question)..... If I buy a V3 today, and inject the Pink Floyd mod's and swap out the tube with some Sylvania. + get another littlie pinkie. Will that create a good amp, and better than stock v8??? Considering I use the same dac.

I won't get the V8 and mod it considering it costs more for the dac as well...

Or is this a step backwards??

thanks mate!

K



Well... as you may know... the X-CAN is not a "tube amp" - its a tube/SS "hybrid amp" - which has a more SS sound than tube sound. So you won't be getting a "tube amp"... if... that's what you had in mind.

I didn't find the v8 to have a "harsher" top end... than the v3 - they struck me as about the same, in that regard - though, I think the v8 was a little less so than the stock v3... but... its close.

As far as "your main question" - it really depends on whether you'll be driving high impedance phones, or low impedance phones. As I've often noted... few amps drive the low impedance D5000s (all Denons) as well as the stock v8... but... it doesn't do so well with high impedance phones - they sound a bit under-powered with the v8 (or as you might term it - "laid back"). And... the v3 drives the high impedance Senns very well, but not low impedance phones so well - they definitely sound a bit harsh.

Again... if you're driving Senns... the PF X-Can v3, with the Russian tubes, or Amperex tubes sounds great! I don't know how it would sound with JAN Sylvanias - never tried them - though, some of the reviews of that tube suggest it may sound a bit like the Amperex tubes... and... could be a bit darker, warmer, richer than the JAN Philips tubes.

Also... the DAC of the v8 is not a "World-Class" DAC - so don't expect a lot.

Personally... if I were driving Denons, primarily... I'd get the v8 "in a heartbeat." But, not if I were driving Senns. If I were driving Senns, or something similar... I'd be pleased with the PF X-Can v3. Though, you may well find other amps, that you like just as well with them - such as the WA3, or WA3+, or WA6. Maybe even the KICAS Caliente. Those amps are in the same general price range as the v8, or PF v3.
 
Nov 25, 2008 at 3:07 PM Post #5 of 17

krisno

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Thansk for long & great reply!

The V8 was really laid back, much more so than the X-can v3 as far as I can remember. But 'memory' on audio is very bad in the human head...

So either, mod the V8 to become more forward and more suiting for my AKG K 701... is there any v8 mod?

I used the K701 on the V3 as well, it had much less bass than v8, but sounded better I thought.

So question was, the pink floyd mod on the x-can V3.. Including maybe a tube swap. Does it make a total different amp.. does the pink floyd mod give better 'bass'??

Does the pink floyd 'mod' ALTER the output transistor resistance?? or maybe I can install a better one suiting AKG.

I like the hybrid... it runs 'cooler' than full tube amp.. It has more details maybe also?

Funny thing Grado... I now have the Yulong Dah1 'mark' edition. It is pure solid state. IT DOES NOT SOUND HARSH in any way, and when i use it, the volume stays put and i can listen to it for 10hours straight. I NEVER EVER could do that with the V3 or V8. I kinda had to 'fiddle' with the volume or something like that... Kinda 'fatiguing' to listen to...

So in general you think v3 and v8 sounds about the same...?

Does PF still sell mods for the v3, he does not respond to me.

What scares me is that actually the cheap DVD sony player connected to the V3 created better quality audio playing miles davis than I EVER managed to make my computer do, even with the X-DAC v3...

maybe alot of jitter... I will get the cambridge audio dacmagic, and a PF mod X-can v3.. hope that the usb on the dacmagic is high quality. Though it's upsampling, so maybe it will make things sound 'thin'.

Kris
 
Nov 25, 2008 at 3:49 PM Post #6 of 17

Kees

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I find the v8 a top class amp.
I think it powers the Senns very well, but they sound laid back.
It is just an extremely NOT forward sounding amp.
Tubes can change the sound signature a bit, but no tubes can make it sound forward or punchy.
The DAC is to be ignored.
 
Nov 25, 2008 at 4:15 PM Post #7 of 17

krisno

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Kees

Was the modded V3 a more forward amp than V8? It is so laid back that its boring, and on low volumes the amp is useless hehe... alll details are gone.

You guys that have listened to the modded v3 vs stock v3, what really difference is it, audible?

K
 
Nov 25, 2008 at 4:26 PM Post #8 of 17

Kees

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Quote:

Originally Posted by krisno /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Kees

Was the modded V3 a more forward amp than V8? It is so laid back that its boring, and on low volumes the amp is useless hehe... alll details are gone.

You guys that have listened to the modded v3 vs stock v3, what really difference is it, audible?

K



The v3 (both modded and without mods) was slightly more forward, but also less detailed and more grainy than the v8. The mods made it a bit smoother, improved a bit on dynamics and gave it more bass extension.
The v8 is very detailed, also on low volumes. I find detail to be one of it's strong points actually.
If you need high volumes to be able to hear this detail....
frown.gif
 
Nov 25, 2008 at 8:57 PM Post #10 of 17

DarkAngel

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Kees /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I find the v8 a top class amp.
I think it powers the Senns very well, but they sound laid back.
It is just an extremely NOT forward sounding amp.
Tubes can change the sound signature a bit, but no tubes can make it sound forward or punchy.
The DAC is to be ignored.



I always use my Senns 600/650 with foam ovals replaced with sheer chiffon cloth and aftermarket cables......much more detailed and open sounding than stock, sounds great with Xcan v8, plenty of power.
Denon D5000 also very sweet sounding match

This hybrid amp is pitch black quiet, turn volume up to max you can hear a pin drop. Agree with Kees tube swap is pretty minor tweak, v8 power supply also helps overall sound but cost is almost as much as amp.
 
Nov 25, 2008 at 9:12 PM Post #11 of 17

Kees

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Quote:

Originally Posted by krisno /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Kees

you still have your V8? Do you still use it... did you do a tube swap?

What heaphones you used with it?

K



Yes I still have it, although it gets less use now with the Experience Head One next to it.
I am at the moment using Telefunken PCC88, but I have also used 6N23-EB, Mullards and Philips Miniwatt SQ.
I use it with: Grado PS-1, Grado SR325i (modded), Grado GS1000, Sennheiser HD414 (2000 Ohm), Sennheiser HD650 (RAL), ATH W10VTG, AKG K240 Sextett, AKG K340 (Headphile), AKG K1000, Kenwood KH-K1000 and JVC HP DX1000.
 
Nov 25, 2008 at 11:10 PM Post #12 of 17

krisno

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Kees, I forgot you had the Experience HEAD ONE..

You have heard everything it seems..... I just read your review, but the Experience HEAD ONE amp.

1) Is it more forward than the V8? More forward than the V3 also?

2) Is there like a big difference on the Head one vs modded V3 / v8, or just subtle?

You know, V3 + mod + littlie pinke is almost the same as the Experience head one.....

Is the E head one bigger than the x-can v8, alot bigger? Does it become warm??

maybe this is the thing.... best you've heard???

and not harsh !! not even in movies?? more bass than v8?

thanks m8ie!!
 
Nov 25, 2008 at 11:29 PM Post #13 of 17

Kees

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krisno;5044483 said:
Kees, I forgot you had the Experience HEAD ONE..

You have heard everything it seems..... I just read your review, but the Experience HEAD ONE amp.
Quote:

Originally Posted by krisno /img/forum/go_quote.gif
1) Is it more forward than the V8? More forward than the V3 also?


Yes, a lot more forward. And heavier. The v8 is airier and more subtle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by krisno /img/forum/go_quote.gif
2) Is there like a big difference on the Head one vs modded V3 / v8, or just subtle?


I think the difference is rather big. And modded v3 is just not in the same league as the v8 or the Head One.

Quote:

Originally Posted by krisno /img/forum/go_quote.gif
You know, V3 + mod + littlie pinke is almost the same as the Experience head one.....


Is that so????
The Head One cost me 900 euro (shipping and all included), the fully modded v3 about 600 euro. The v8 less than 500 euro...

Quote:

Originally Posted by krisno /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Is the E head one bigger than the x-can v8, alot bigger? Does it become warm??


Yes it is substantially bigger and gets hotter, but not as hot as some tube amps do (you can put it under a shelf without burning things, but it needs lots of ventilation of course).

Quote:

Originally Posted by krisno /img/forum/go_quote.gif
maybe this is the thing.... best you've heard???


Probably. The Phonitor is pretty good too....
I prefer it over amps like Stealth and Zana Deux, but that has more to do with preference of the sound signature, not with quality.
Quote:

Originally Posted by krisno /img/forum/go_quote.gif
and not harsh !! not even in movies?? more bass than v8?


Not harsh, but if you put trash in it will spit trash out of course.
smile.gif

Not more bass than the v8, but thicker, fuller.
 
Nov 26, 2008 at 2:28 PM Post #14 of 17

krisno

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but my dear Kees

The v8 in my ears, with AKG K 701 (using USB DAC) sounded a bit harsh on the top end. Honestly, on low volumes there was lack of dynamics, and on normal/high volumes it sounded kind of harsh. It really was kind of fatiguing. I noticed that I had to adjust volume, or fiddle with it somehow on longer listening sessions. (even using extra psu, littlie pinkie)

The cheap chinese solid state Yulong 'mark' dah1 does not sound any of that. Its not harsh on top end, and I can listen it for 10hours straight, no matter at what volume(!) and it never ever becomes fatiguing.

But i really like the thinkness and musicality of tubes... so I sold the v8, not too fun to buy back another one, and another littlie pinkie.

This was a stock v8!... Also it was very laid back in my ears..

Can I mod it somehow to make it livlier, and less harsh....

!!! I mean, will a tube swap do, or is it the transistors on the output stage that makes it sound harsh?? !!!

If Pinkie could release a V8 'mod' maybe that is what I need??

...

The experience amp looks perfect, but it creates heat... the x-can's don't, so I think that puts me off..

Maybe a modded V3 will solve my problems....

I forgot to try the V8 with a external dvd / cd player, to see if problems was the DAC... stupid of me !

K
 
Nov 27, 2008 at 12:34 PM Post #15 of 17

Kees

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Quote:

Originally Posted by krisno /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Can I mod it somehow to make it livlier, and less harsh....

!!! I mean, will a tube swap do, or is it the transistors on the output stage that makes it sound harsh?? !!!



Did you give it some burn-in time? Especially tubes can take some time to settle...
Tubes can make a difference for harshness in the upper regions (try Mullard or the Philips Miniwatt).

Quote:

Originally Posted by krisno /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I forgot to try the V8 with a external dvd / cd player, to see if problems was the DAC... stupid of me !

K



frown.gif
 

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