[DrewWaits]

Hello HF,
 
So with the holiday's coming, I've been given the question on what I want from my parents, and I was thinking "hmm, why not replace my clip+."
I pretty fed up with the thing hanging and crashing, constantly refreshing media, and the like. My Father was thinking about buying me the Schiit Magni/Modi combo, but I decided as little as I sit at my desk these days, I need something better for my on-the-go day. Given that its about 200 dollars for that combo, I suppose my budget is 100-250. So I'll list the devices that I have seen that I view as contenders and my initial thoughts:
 
1) Fiio X1 - $99.99 - Looks good for entry level, but if something like the X3 is better by a 70 buck margin I might look at it.
 
2) Fiio X3 - $169.99 - I hate the button layout. It looks like Fiio decided to pull a Nintendo and make a weird controller for the sake of it. I have heard excellent things about the sound quality though.
 
3) Ibasso DX50 - $199.99 - It looks super rugged, and I've been told rockbox works excellently on it.
 
4) HiFiMan HM-601 - $169.99 - The fact that it only supports SDHC bothers me, that will impact longevity. I already have 58gb worth of CDs.
 
5) Sony A17 or A16 - $299.99 - Looks good, if not a bit out of my Price Range. I like large internal memory, and I assume since it's about to release this year it'll be SDXC for that sweet sweet 128gb.
 
 
 
Here are the things I'm mostly interested, in order of importance:
 
1) Sound Quality
2) Build Quality
3) Can load Rockbox
4) Price
5) UI
 
 
I'll pick the one with a bad UI, as long as it has a stable rockbox version to load to it. 
 
so Head-Fi, give me your suggestions. I am all ears. Given my constraints, what do you think is the best one?
 
EDIT: If you guys can think of something else in my range that's better, please let me know!
 
EDIT: My Headphones are V-MODA M80, and the Ultimate Ear Triple-Fi 10. Sorry for my goof.

 

[dpastern]

from what I've read (no personal experience with any of your mentioned players), the fiio units would be best in terms of pure SQ.  The fiio x1 seems to have a better UI than the x3 (not hard to do lol!).  I know nothing about rockbox, so can't comment on that,  but looking at their homepage, none of the players that you've mentioned are listed in their stable/unstable ports...
 
If it was me, I'd probably go with the fiio x1.  And I wouldn't bother with rockbox.  But, that's just me.  I'm sure someone else will chime in on it and add their advice to help you.
 
Dave

 

[PurpleAngel]

  from what I've read (no personal experience with any of your mentioned players), the fiio units would be best in terms of pure SQ.  The fiio x1 seems to have a better UI than the x3 (not hard to do lol!).  I know nothing about rockbox, so can't comment on that,  but looking at their homepage, none of the players that you've mentioned are listed in their stable/unstable ports...
 
If it was me, I'd probably go with the FiiO x1.  And I wouldn't bother with rockbox.  But, that's just me.  I'm sure someone else will chime in on it and add their advice to help you.
 
Dave

 
+1, I was able to test a pre-production FiiO X1 sounded nice, no need for Rockboxing.

 

[DrewWaits]

If the UI on the X1 is decent I'll agree, so that's probably the avenue I'll pursue. Yeah the reason I like rockbox is because it lets my potato Clip+ run smoother. I still like the ruggedness of the DX50 (if it is indeed as rugged as it looks) even if it is twice as expensive. But the Fiio seems like the obvious choice.

 

[TrollDragon]

The X1 would be your best choice of the lot...

 

[castleofargh]

I don't know how we can advise you without knowing what headphone/IEM you use.
if you're used to a sansa, keep in mind that something like a DX50 is huge in comparison. you can probably put 6 maybe 8 sansa clip inside 1 DX50(wild guess I didn't check the measurements).
you might want to check the size and weight of those daps and try to find something of the same size (even if you need to draw it on a piece or paper) to give you an idea of what you'll have to put in your pockets or in a bag.
 
 
 if you do use some advanced rockbox EQ, then only rockbox or maybe some android DAP with the right app will bring you the same capabilities. if not, then you probably don't need rockbox so much.
if you need to lower the bass on your headphone, then forget sony, there is no negative value to set the bass, only moaaarrrr bass.
 
 
 
 
and still waiting to know what you have, but maybe a new actually working sansa clip zip(yeahhhh color!!!!) and a better headphone would be a better music upgrade than another DAP on what you actually have?

 

[dpastern]

  I don't know how we can advise you without knowing what headphone/IEM you use.
if you're used to a sansa, keep in mind that something like a DX50 is huge in comparison. you can probably put 6 maybe 8 sansa clip inside 1 DX50(wild guess I didn't check the measurements).
you might want to check the size and weight of those daps and try to find something of the same size (even if you need to draw it on a piece or paper) to give you an idea of what you'll have to put in your pockets or in a bag.
 
 
 if you do use some advanced rockbox EQ, then only rockbox or maybe some android DAP with the right app will bring you the same capabilities. if not, then you probably don't need rockbox so much.
if you need to lower the bass on your headphone, then forget sony, there is no negative value to set the bass, only moaaarrrr bass.
 
 
 
 
and still waiting to know what you have, but maybe a new actually working sansa clip zip(yeahhhh color!!!!) and a better headphone would be a better music upgrade than another DAP on what you actually have?

 
DAPs will exhibit a particular sound style, irrespective of what headphone or iem you're using.  
 
Some headphone/iems will alter that base sound, depending on their own SQ style, but the generic bass sound style of a DAP will still show itself.  Yes, the OP might not like say, the X1 and his particular phones as it might make the unit bright sounding or heavy in the bass.  That said, the X1 and other fiios tend to be quite neutral in their SQ from what I've read.  I can't comment on the Sony.  The iBasso units tend to be a bit warmer, with more bass than the fiio (but not neutral) by all accounts.  Then it comes down to both the OP's music choices and listening preferences.  Some people like lots of bass and are happy to ignore neutrality (and pick headphones like beats), others prefer a more natural and neutral SQ.  A neutral DAP/headphone combo might suck for a person who likes Reggae, even though it's neutral, but using said DAP with bass heavy phones and he might like it.  
 
I personally prefer to lean towards neutrality in both DAP and phones.  That way the music talks for itself, and there's a consistency in the SQ. 

 

[castleofargh]

  DAPs will exhibit a particular sound style, irrespective of what headphone or iem you're using.  
 
Some headphone/iems will alter that base sound, depending on their own SQ style, but the generic bass sound style of a DAP will still show itself.  Yes, the OP might not like say, the X1 and his particular phones as it might make the unit bright sounding or heavy in the bass.  That said, the X1 and other fiios tend to be quite neutral in their SQ from what I've read.  I can't comment on the Sony.  The iBasso units tend to be a bit warmer, with more bass than the fiio (but not neutral) by all accounts.  Then it comes down to both the OP's music choices and listening preferences.  Some people like lots of bass and are happy to ignore neutrality (and pick headphones like beats), others prefer a more natural and neutral SQ.  A neutral DAP/headphone combo might suck for a person who likes Reggae, even though it's neutral, but using said DAP with bass heavy phones and he might like it.  
 
I personally prefer to lean towards neutrality in both DAP and phones.  That way the music talks for itself, and there's a consistency in the SQ. 

yeah, I'm not sure it's a good way to look at DAPs. I asked about the headphone because some DAPs will hiss on sensitive IEMs or the impedance output will alter the signature of a multidriver(most of the times in a bad way). and some headphones are bordeline to be used with portable sources so something like a X3 or DX50 that have a lot more power than a sony or a clip might be necessary to drive them well.
when that is out of the lway, yeah sure let's talk about signatures, but if you have rockbox and know how to use the EQ, you really don't care much about the original signature. a sansa clip is still a great value because of that and the 1ohm impedance. but the soundstage sucks a little ^_^.
overall headphones can have up to 25DB differences between one another, when a bad warm rolled off DAP would still probably not alter the signature more than 2 or 3DB from 100hz to 10khz. so while I agree that some do sound different, I personally believe that finding the right headphone is often the most simple way to really get great sound for ourselves.
now most of the stuff in Drew's wishlist have some pros and cons and none are really rubbish so knowing what headphone is used, could help ^_^.

 

[dpastern]

  yeah, I'm not sure it's a good way to look at DAPs. I asked about the headphone because some DAPs will hiss on sensitive IEMs or the impedance output will alter the signature of a multidriver(most of the times in a bad way). and some headphones are bordeline to be used with portable sources so something like a X3 or DX50 that have a lot more power than a sony or a clip might be necessary to drive them well.
when that is out of the lway, yeah sure let's talk about signatures, but if you have rockbox and know how to use the EQ, you really don't care much about the original signature. a sansa clip is still a great value because of that and the 1ohm impedance. but the soundstage sucks a little ^_^.
overall headphones can have up to 25DB differences between one another, when a bad warm rolled off DAP would still probably not alter the signature more than 2 or 3DB from 100hz to 10khz. so while I agree that some do sound different, I personally believe that finding the right headphone is often the most simple way to really get great sound for ourselves.
now most of the stuff in Drew's wishlist have some pros and cons and none are really rubbish so knowing what headphone is used, could help ^_^.

 
Fair call!
 
Any transducer (iem/headphone/speaker) will alter the original input sound signal to some degree, the question is by how much! 
 
I'm personally not a fan of EQ - like with photography, I'm a firm believer in getting it right without manipulation.  Some to me, neutral DAP + neutral headphones are the way to go.  Each to their own.  EQ *always* has some negative impact on SQ imho.  That's why you won't see any bass/treble tone controls on any high end preamp/integrated amp.  
 
the big curve ball here is each person's ears - no 2 are the same and that makes it hard to make recommendations for someone else.  
 
I personally wouldn't touch a Sony product wherever possible, but that's for personal reasons.  ymmv.

 

[castleofargh]

  Fair call!
 
Any transducer (iem/headphone/speaker) will alter the original input sound signal to some degree, the question is by how much! 
 
I'm personally not a fan of EQ - like with photography, I'm a firm believer in getting it right without manipulation.  Some to me, neutral DAP + neutral headphones are the way to go.  Each to their own.  EQ *always* has some negative impact on SQ imho.  That's why you won't see any bass/treble tone controls on any high end preamp/integrated amp.  
 
the big curve ball here is each person's ears - no 2 are the same and that makes it hard to make recommendations for someone else.  
 
I personally wouldn't touch a Sony product wherever possible, but that's for personal reasons.  ymmv.

eheh, I posted a few whining boohoos about the sony A15 on another topic, overall if you don't have sensitive IEMs it's a very nice DAP(I think I'll keep it).
about the photography part, I also have the opposite idea, so at least we both are consistent

. I totally agree with you idea of trying to get something close to the original, but no headphone is really flat(and we would have to define what flat is for headphones first). so to me the EQ is a way to compensate for the headphone's exaggerated traits. 
same with photography where you never ever get the closest you can to reality by touching nothing, as touching nothing is actually letting the machine make some kind of judgement call and most of the time your own eyes will do that better than the machine(at least for white balance and sometimes exposure, for most of the rest, the machine actually pwns me^_^). EQ for audio is very much white balance for photography, you don't try to change the content, you try to balance the "colors" to avoid one dominating over the rest. and by balancing everything even a little better, you can actually clear things and bring up a lot more shades of colors that were hidden behind some bully exaggerated tone. if the camera was good at setting white balance in all circumstances, I would never touch it. if my lenses had no distortion or fringing or vignetting, I wouldn't use DXO or lightroom. if my sources and DAPs where flat I would never use EQ.
I'm abusing EQ and post processing for the very reason you don't want to touch them

.

 

[DrewWaits]

I cannot believe that I've 

  I don't know how we can advise you without knowing what headphone/IEM you use.
if you're used to a sansa, keep in mind that something like a DX50 is huge in comparison. you can probably put 6 maybe 8 sansa clip inside 1 DX50(wild guess I didn't check the measurements).
you might want to check the size and weight of those daps and try to find something of the same size (even if you need to draw it on a piece or paper) to give you an idea of what you'll have to put in your pockets or in a bag.
 
 
 if you do use some advanced rockbox EQ, then only rockbox or maybe some android DAP with the right app will bring you the same capabilities. if not, then you probably don't need rockbox so much.
if you need to lower the bass on your headphone, then forget sony, there is no negative value to set the bass, only moaaarrrr bass.
 
 
 
 
and still waiting to know what you have, but maybe a new actually working sansa clip zip(yeahhhh color!!!!) and a better headphone would be a better music upgrade than another DAP on what you actually have?

I was really distracted when I posted this query.I forgot to list my Headphones. V-MODA M-80s and UE Triple-Fi 10 IEMS. I'll edit again to put it at the top. Sorry for the derps guys.