Need advice: on speakers (computer or bookshelf?)

[TheeeChosenOne]

Macdef,
Thanks for the thorough answers.

By any chance, have you had a chance to audition the Alpha A/V, LR or CLR?

If so, how would you rank them in terms of sound?.....

 

[PianoBlack]

Thanks MacDEF and Three for feeling out more information on my q. I think I'll be getting the white Alpha Minis and NAD L40 from yawaonline... so I'm going to stop reading this thread lest I get tempted (oh so tempted) to upgrade what I don't even own yet...

actually spent a bit o time researching axiom there... no self-control WHATSOEVER.

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by TheeeChosenOne By any chance, have you had a chance to audition the Alpha A/V, LR or CLR?

I've owned the Alphas (which sound identical to the Alpha A/V -- they just added some shielding) and the Alpha Minis, and we just installed some Alpha Intro LRs in the MiL's kitchen a couple weekends ago

The Alpha A/Vs have a bit more bass than the Minis, but the midrange and bass are a bit tighter on the Minis than on the A/Vs. I personally found the Minis to be a bit better because of this.

The Intro LRs are not as good as the A/Vs or the Minis, but they're still pretty good sounding. And they are TINY! You really don't get how small they are until you see them in person. They have good highs and mids, but the bass is rolled off quite a bit compared to their bigger brothers. The main consequence is that the Intro LRs don't have the trademark warmth of the PSB line, and they appear to emphasize the treble -- they're still pretty enjoyable, and are perfect for nearfield listening and as the rear channels in a home theater setup.

 

[TheeeChosenOne]

PianoBlack,
I think one can have a very good system with Macdef's recommendations.

Only some things for you to help you or maybe even confuse you further?

http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php

Look up what other buyers have said in PSB vs. Axiom comparisons.

Also look at the Norh 3 for $150 at www.norh.com. Norh makes amazing speakers as well and has their fanatics. Look at www.avsforum.com and www.harmonicdiscord.com for Norh, Axiom, PSB comparisons.

I read a thread of the L40 where a guy made a very good point. While the NAD receiver is good, what happens when the cd player busts? Or the receiver? or the Amp? This is why people go separates to avoid a larger loss from an all-in-one product......plus there may be an issue that over time, you can upgrade EACH separate & make use of that flexibility; whereas with the L40 it becomes impossible.

Just things to ponder.....

A Devil's Advocate Position?:
You can get a Denon 1802 for <$360 then add Axiom, PSB, norh speakers for about the same price as the Yawaonline package. Plus the Denon is new vs a refurbed NAD, it offers more POWER (80 watts x 5 channels), other bells & whistles like Dolby Digital 2 and five channels for future HT use or more speakers? Plus the Denon is reputed by mags to have the best receiver sound (I know that Marantz, B&W owner will raise a finger here).

You can then use your computer cd for source at the beginning, if you're tight on cash (a good thing for you since you're into portability). Maybe later, you decide to get a Sony SACD player that also plays MP3 (SACD BTW kicks a*s over regular cd). NEW SACD models are hitting the $200 mark. DVDA is also making a hit now. Again, you can see how the NAD can't keep up with new technologies. You're basically stuck with that CD player that's limited in functionality over a dedicated player, and an amp that is limited in power if you plan to upgrade to bigger speakers when you get wealthier, etc. If your like most audiophiles, you will most likely have that ITCH to UPGRADE something eventually! And here where seprates raises its hand in the air.

Just thoughts

I hope it gives some food for thought.

 

[PianoBlack]

NOOOOOoooooooooo......!!!!

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*runs off to check out all those links.*

 

[PianoBlack]

*scampers back*

uh ok. do not stick me into a forum (or three)....ever... I just couldn't get out. for a very very long time... not good for finals.

but okay: staying on budget (if I manage to sell lots of stuff, I'll have ~$500 which should cover tax and shipping) means no Norh 3.0 and definitely no Axioms.

But ThreeChosenOne, I do know I won't be getting the Denon 1802. I don't see myself owing a home theater system (even after college) that would need the Denon's many features. ANd it's huge! (sorry. very judge-a-book-by-its-cover am I.)

I already planned to hook up my DI/O from my computer to the L40 though, so I should definitely search around for int. amp/receiver. There's definitely something to be said though for all-in-one packages...

Wait. Can't I hook up an SACD player to the NAD L40 since it's also a receiver?

 

[TheeeChosenOne]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=1357530008

You can get this Denon 1602 receiver for $285 + 30 s&h = $315 thru Ebay's "Buy it Now". If you wait you bid, you can get it for under $300?

ADD Norh 3 at $150 with FREE s&h. Total cost w/ Denon = $450-$475.

ADD AXIOM M2 at $192 w/ FREE s&h. Total cost w/ Denon = $492- $507. http://www.axiomaudio.com/factoryoutlet.html The Factory outlet has "b" grade stuff, but this stuff is "flawless". Try to find a scratch. I couldn't on 2 pairs. Other people have said the same thing about their factory outlet--simply AWESOME!

You already know PSB prices so I don't need to draw the math. Have you done your PSB vs Axiom, Norh research on boards? Then you roughly know the "hierarchy" for these models already.

Don't sell the Denon short. It's widely regarded by audiophile mags as the best sounding receivers (again do your research if you're skeptical). With the 1602, you get more POWER and bells & whistles than than the NAD receiver. Just b/c it's geared for HT, it doesn't mean it can't play music--quite the contrary! I'm going by music first & foremost not HT. The HT stuff is just a great bonus.

Of course, you can research good integrated amps if you don't mind losing the radio. There's also weaker receivers in pounds & inches that you can look into.

Size doesn't make too much of a difference here: the Denon or NAD will easily fit in the same shelf space.

Geez, ain't it fun think all this stuff over?

 

[PianoBlack]

Hehe! Just shot off some qs to the ebay seller, but I might be ordering this Denon real soon...

And hey one of the reasons I'm a mess in forums is because I tend to find two billion and one topics that I'm interested in... so I might have miss the whole norh, axiom psb thing. But tell me if this is right:
psb alpha minis < norh < axiom. PSb is slightly 'worse' than norh because norh is a full range speaker? And axiom just sound good?

eh....

but thanks alot for all the links. No need to finish problem set tonight!

Wow, you sure know how to shop around!

Edit: Size matters to me because I don't have much room for the next few years. And I don't think piling audio equipment is a good idea.

 

[thomas]

I have the Axiom M22's, and have heard the rest of the axiom line...

Axioms have as really flat, accurate, and neutral sound, which is very rare in that price class. They are also very detailed, though i found them a bit bright with certain amps/ recordings, though it is a very minor flaw compared to the flaws in any other speaker i've heard for that price... My M22's are good enough to replace my HD-600's for most of my listening, and actually have a flatter response. The M3's are similar, but has a slightly exagerated midbass and less detailed mids. The M2's are similar to the M22's, in their flat sound, but have no deep bass and less treble detail...

Right now, many people at audio asylum are raving about Michaura speakers. (m55) The speakers were apperently made by Axiom (they use the same midbass as the M22's, and a cheaper titanium driver from the Merak line, which is also owned by Axiom), and are similar to the M22's in many ways. However, Michaura went bankrupt, and liquidated all their stock to ubid.com... Right now, they are going for ~$100 / pair, which is an absolute steal, since they should be a top-notch $500 range speaker...

They are a bit big/heavy for a dorm room, but if you want the best sound for the least amount of money, i think these are it.

 

[PianoBlack]

Thomas,

You're right, ubid.com has an excellent deal for the M55s. $40 a pair + $35 shipping... The thing is they're 4-5" taller than what I think I have space for.

I do want to go "Space, schmace" but I know I'm pushing the limits as it is already.

But hey, thanks for pointing that out. Hope it helps other bookshelf speaker people or college students like me looking for a speaker system.

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by PianoBlack Can't I hook up an SACD player to the NAD L40 since it's also a receiver?

Yes.


Quote:

Originally posted by TheeeChosenOne Size doesn't make too much of a difference here: the Denon or NAD will easily fit in the same shelf space.a

Woah... big difference. The L40 is MUCH smaller than that Denon receiver, and you have to add the CD player still.

Let's also stop for a moment and remember what PianoBlack is looking for: a small setup for listening to two-channel music. Not a big component system, not a home theater system. What you're talking about would be quite nice in a different application, but not for his stated desires. And for simple two-channel stereo, I'll take the L40 over that Denon receiver -- mainly because the NAD system has all it's design focus and componentry in good, two-channel sound, while the Denon's is in home theater.



Quote:

Originally posted by PianoBlack so I might have miss the whole norh, axiom psb thing. But tell me if this is right: psb alpha minis < norh < axiom. PSb is slightly 'worse' than norh because norh is a full range speaker? And axiom just sound good?

Woah... again... that's not necessarily true. As I mentioned in an earlier post, at this price range, you're talking about some of the best speakers you can get. None of them is clearly better than the others. In fact, these three models all sound quite *different* (not "better" or "worse"). The problem with some of those forums is that people are fanatical and defensive when it comes to things like their own speakers -- each one has its own little "cult" (kind of like headphones, I guess

).

If you want the best value for the money, the Alpha Minis are simply unbeatable for $99. You will not be able to find anything remotely near that price that is clearly better. But you may personally prefer the Axioms or Nohrs or NHTs to the PSB (or you may not, we can't tell you) -- the only way to find out is to audition. PLEASE try to audition your speakers first.

 

[PianoBlack]

Quote:

Originally posted by MacDEF Let's also stop for a moment and remember what PianoBlack is looking for.

Excellent advice. I'm slightly spastic when it comes to shopping. Okay, while the previous suggestions have all been somewhat varied, they are recommendations. Everything mentioned has stuff going for them. In other words, the choice is no longer based on quality but on price. So I've staked out a few auctions and see whether I can win them so that I only spend $300. Impossible? I'll let you know.


Quote:

but not for his stated desires.

[size=xx-small]um...i'm not a guy.[/size]

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by PianoBlack [size=xx-small]um...i'm not a guy.[/size] [/B]

Oops, sorry PB

 

[TheeeChosenOne]

PianoBlack,
I think you're on the right track.

Ubid has great prices on all things audio and competes very well with Ebay on many items.

If what the previous poster said that the Michuara speakers are made by Axiom, then they should also be seriously considered.

I'd go to www.audioasylum.com and do a search for those threads since he said the people were raving about them there.

On the amp issue, however, I'm still for Denon. Their warm sound would match well with Axiom or Michuara (if it's like an Axiom in sound, that is). Go to http://www.reviewerschoice.com/. Look at what they say about about Axiom. The Axiom m22 is compared at the $3000 monitor league. The m3 is compared at $1000 monitor league. The Denon and Axiom won product of the year--year after year. So......you should at least take away from that webpage and others is that Axiom & Denon make great products THROUGHOUT their lineup.

By the way, ask your question at the Axiom board, you have some very wise people at that board also give you great recommendations--including the President of the company who answers threads! Now, that guy is one experienced dude!


P.S. To Macdef's point, like he says, you'd be hard pressed to find a better $99 speaker than the PSB Minis. But, since you have $500 to spend I'd go for the best speaker I could find--a little deeper bass sounding monitor like the Axiom or norh. Again, don't only listen to me & Macdef. Go to those board links and do your research. You'll be GLAD you did and you'll come out with a more informed decision. Also, ask your question on those boards (Harmonic Discord, AVS, AA, Axiom) and see what other people recommend for you. They also have great ideas.

But please report back here on your decision as I'm curious!

At soundstage they put this speaker in their Reviewers Choice section....hmmmmm.........http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/athena_asb1.htm
They said: "Sets a new standard for value in truly inexpensive loudspeakers."

P.S.S. While in college, I bought an integrated Panasonic VCR/TV. My thinking: "Yeah it's compact, but what if something craps out, BUT it's Panasonic! So I should be OK." Low & behold, like Murphy's Law magic, things go wrong.....right after the warranty expires, my VCR craps out!!

To repair the thing would cost me as much as a new TV!! Doh! Worse yet, the TV had no inputs for a separate VCR!! I then SWORE off such products!

NOW, after many years, I TRULY understand the audiophile's philosophy/wisdom of separates: flexibility, upgradeability, AND ultimate long-term economy--if one knows how to assemble it. Any all-in-ones with MOVING PARTS is a scary thing for me/others. Very scary!

 

[TheeeChosenOne]

PianoBlack,

At Border's book store, they carry the What Hi-Fi magazine. I don't know if Barnes & Noble carries it. The B&N in my area doesn't.

It's a British magazine that does shootouts between different products at all price levels. Every issue carries a re-cap of EVERY product comparison they've done over the years. A TRULY awesome source.

I'm looking at the current issue, and this is what they said about the NAD L40 and Denon 1602.

NAD L40: 3 out of 5 stars rating
"A fine bit of kit neatly built."

Denon 1602: 5 out of 5 stars rating
"Denon's bargain surround star. Fine blend of features; strong performance in every area."