[McPanse]

I'm re-doing a 13'x10' home office and naturally the audio considerations are taking the front seat.

I'm undecided about whether to focus on building a near-field desktop system or a higher-quality 2-channel setup best enjoyed from a comfy chair across the room.

Computer won't be used for gaming -- it's a Mac, after all -- and I've got better options for movie watching.

Sample Simple Near-field system:
Audioengine A5 speakers + CSW Newton P500 subwoofer<--head amp/pre <--DAC<--iMac

Sample Dedicated 2-channel system:
High-quality bookshelf speakers (Aperion, Ascend, B&W, Dynaudio, Energy, etc.) with or w/out the P500 <--spare Denon AVR <-- iMac

Whichever way I go, I want to get some decent closed cans (D2000 or better) and run them out of a dedicated headamp or the Denon AVR (at least initially).

A little more about the room: It's 13' deep by 10' wide. The back wall will be dedicated to open Elfa shelves. This is where I would put book shelf speakers.

The L-shaped desk will run along the left hand wall and turn in toward the center of the room, positioned so that I'll be facing the door when sitting at the computer, my back towards the back wall.

Comfy chair is near the front wall -- good spot for the bookshelf speakers, bad spot for desktop speakers, since those would be firing toward the rear wall.

Conversely, the bookshelf speakers would be firing at my back when seated at the computer.

Goal here is as much audio bliss that I can buy for $1000* or less.

*This assumes I pay upwards of $700 for speakers, even though there are several on my list that can be had more less than half that.

Speakers currently under consideration:

1. B&W 685
2. Energy RC10
3. Ascend Sierra 1
4. Usher S-520
5. Onix Reference 1
6. Paradigm Atom V5
7. Dynaudio's Focus 14
8. Aperion Intimus 6B
9. HiVi D2.1se

Worth noting: I have a decent 5.1 home theater better suited to movies than music. My headphone rig (see sig) is in the living room. I run a pair of Boston CR75 bookshelves powered by Trends T-amp. The speakers are poorly positioned, but the sound is good enough for casual listening with the family.

I want the home office to be a place where I can shut the door and get lost in the music.

Any and all advice and comments are welcome.

 

[McPanse]

Prime time bump

 

[Currawong]

Get the good speakers and try them both near-field and in a regular set-up and decide which arrangement you like better. I'm using Paradigm Titans near-field, but had them before in a regular set-up. They are a bit big though. Also, if one your amps has a pre-amp out, you could also get something like a Parasound Zamp (power amp) just for the speakers.

 

[wgb113]

I think you need to decide or figure out what sound presentation you like better. I got into this hobby with a nearfield setup, spent the same amount of time with a mid-field setup, and have spent the last year sitting 15' from my speakers.

For my serious music listening I'm going back to a nearfield setup in our office which is 12x10x9. I've realized in the past year that it's the presentation that I prefer.

Bill

 

[McPanse]

My inclination is to go with something like the Audio Engines, because the more I think about it, the more I realize how difficult it could be to get the most out of quality speakers in a room setup that will demand compromises galore.

I haven't given up entirely on a quality 2-channel system, mind you, but I think I'll probably start things out with the AE 5, a DAC and a Head/Pre-amp and call it a day.

In terms of possible upgrade paths, I could always run the AE 5 direct from the computer and repurpose the DAC and Head/Pre to feed a power amp and some quality bookshelves.

But who knows. I could change my mind tomorrow.

Perhaps it times to head over to the DAC/sources forum and look for a toslink-enabled DAC that has two pairs of RCA outs (mission impossible?)

 

[Ham Sandwich]

For the speakers you are considering there isn't a lot of difference between what is considered a near-field and a regular far-field speaker. The main difference is going to be size if you want to place the near-field speakers on a typical desktop. There are more specialized near-field speakers that are designed to be more directional to minimize reflections off the recording console and other nearby objects. But that generally doesn't come into play until you move up to higher level pro-audio nearfield monitors. And you can generally tell either by the marketing copy or the non-symmetric look of the tweeter waveguide if the speaker is designed to be more directional.

Here's a series of two articles from Sound On Sound covering some of the differences and non-differences between monitors versus hi-fi speakers (part 1, part 2).

If you have the desk space for a larger bookshelf size speaker or can put the speakers on speaker stands on each side or behind your desk you could use them near-field and then switch to the far-field setup later as your mood or curiosity changes.

 

[kunalraiker]

I feel the near filed speakers can to some extend provide you with the music involveness that headphones could.

I just admire my near fields, I do have to listen to them from a distance due to my current furniture setup, would really enjoy drawing up a chair and sitting in between them.

I know you want to sit at a distance, is that negotiable mate.

 

[McPanse]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ham Sandwich /img/forum/go_quote.gif For the speakers you are considering there isn't a lot of difference between what is considered a near-field and a regular far-field speaker. The main difference is going to be size if you want to place the near-field speakers on a typical desktop. There are more specialized near-field speakers that are designed to be more directional to minimize reflections off the recording console and other nearby objects. But that generally doesn't come into play until you move up to higher level pro-audio nearfield monitors. And you can generally tell either by the marketing copy or the non-symmetric look of the tweeter waveguide if the speaker is designed to be more directional. Here's a series of two articles from Sound On Sound covering some of the differences and non-differences between monitors versus hi-fi speakers (part 1, part 2). If you have the desk space for a larger bookshelf size speaker or can put the speakers on speaker stands on each side or behind your desk you could use them near-field and then switch to the far-field setup later as your mood or curiosity changes.

Thanks HS. All good food for thought.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kunalraiker /img/forum/go_quote.gif I know you want to sit at a distance, is that negotiable mate.

Definitely. If I put passive speakers on the back wall and spin around in my chair, I'll be facing them from just a couple or few feet away.

 

[Lenni]

I'm by no means a veteran as far as speakers go, but I'd like to make a couple of observations - the A5 are powered, so what's the use of "Head/Pre-amp"? note the A5 are rear ported therefore require space from the back wall.

I wouldn't quite call the list of speakers you mentioned "High-quality" but more like entry level budget speakers. I've no heard any of them speakers (apart maybe the B&W's), but I bet A5 sounds better. I audition a few under $500 bookshelf speakers, and memory allow none offered more than what the A5 already offers. imo if you want better speakers than the A5 you need to spend more, or spend that $1k on a good pair of HF. my 2c

 

[McPanse]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lenni /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm by no means a veteran as far as speakers go, but I'd like to make a couple of observations - the A5 are powered, so what's the use of "Head/Pre-amp"? note the A5 are rear ported therefore require space from the back wall. I wouldn't quite call the list of speakers you mentioned "High-quality" but more like entry level budget speakers. I've no heard any of them speakers (apart maybe the B&W's), but I bet A5 sounds better. I audition a few under $500 bookshelf speakers, and memory allow none offered more than what the A5 already offers. imo if you want better speakers than the A5 you need to spend more, or spend that $1k on a good pair of HF. my 2c

A head/pre would give me a dedicated headphone amp. If the head amp doubled as a pre, it would give me some flexibility if I inserted a standalone DAC in the chain (upgrade potential, etc.).

You certainly can always spend more for speakers, but there doesn't seem to be all that many above the $1000-$1500 range. With decent, listenable book shelf speakers selling for $50-$100, I don't consider $800-$1000 to be entry-level budget offerings. I have a pair of Boston VR-M60s in my home theater that retailed for $1000 about a decade ago. They significantly outperform their slightly smaller siblings (which cost around $700 a pair back then) and crush truly entry-level speakers I've heard.

From what I've seen and heard more recently, there are some pretty swell sub-$1000, sub-$800, and sub-$500 speaker deals out there, especially with some of the internet-direct brands that get a lot of love in the two-channel and home theater forums.

After a weekend at looking at various options, I'm back to planning to put some passive bookshelf speakers on the back wall and power them with my surplus Denon AVR. The NHT Classic 3 are now seriously under consideration for this role.

Since the Denon can run two sets of speakers, I could conceivably put a second, smaller pair of passives on the desk (Like the B&W LM-1s I have that last their job as surrounds when I upgraded my mains).

Both sets of speakers could share the same sub, which is capable of providing decent low-end reinforcement when I take the time to get it dialed in right.

But with some of the passives I'm looking it capable of going below 50Hz, I might find that I don't need the sub (but I already own it and it's idle, so what the heck.)

 

[noinimod]

I'm surprised nobody's said it yet, but an avr is not ideal for powering passives. If you're looking at passivesdefinitely get a proper int. amp to power the speakers. The amp makes a huge difference so don't stinge on that. If you're getting dyns, you need loads of power or else they'll sound like crap

 

[McPanse]

Not ideal, perhaps, but free.

Elsewhere at home, I'm using a 15-watt T-amp to run Boston CR-75s and the sound is surprisingly good, even with the speakers poorly positioned.

So I suspect the Denon's 75-watts will do alright with most of the speakers I'm considering (the Dynaudio's aren't top contenders at the moment).

To clarify something I wrote above, when I said "passive" I meant not self-powered (e.g. Audio Engine), sometimes called "active".

 

[Lenni]

McPanse, my friend, if you find $50-$100 bookshelf speakers decent & listenable then that's all it matters, good for you. as always is best to audition before buying any speakers.

in my experience a real good step up from the A5 would be something like Paradigm's Studio 10 (I mention Paradigm's because that's what I heard - doesn't mean they're the only ones - PSB's might be even better).

they're maybe more then your initial budget, but worth every $ in the long run (imo). they will entertain you and give more pleasure then any of the other speakers mentioned. guaranteed!

 

[MadMan007]

I may be misunderstanding things with your intended setup here but there is one very important thing when considering what are called 'monitors' (even if they're hi-fi oriented) speakers - typically two-way ported designs with 5-6" woofers - these days and that is how they are ported. Rear porting in particular often need a decent amount of space behind the speaker to not bass-load off the wall too much. If you're literally putting them on bookshelves or very near a wall and not on proper stands a bit away from a wall it's something to remember.

and btw I demo'd the Ascend Sierra-1's, they really are very nice speakers all around even if the bass is what is often mentioned as being the standout point. They just can't compare to larger acoustic suspension floorstnaders but I have a personal preference for acoustic suspension speakers. I can't compare them to others you listed though so it probably doesn't help too much.

 

[noinimod]

Quote:

Originally Posted by McPanse /img/forum/go_quote.gif Not ideal, perhaps, but free. Elsewhere at home, I'm using a 15-watt T-amp to run Boston CR-75s and the sound is surprisingly good, even with the speakers poorly positioned. So I suspect the Denon's 75-watts will do alright with most of the speakers I'm considering (the Dynaudio's aren't top contenders at the moment).

FWIW, i heard a bud's setup a few years ago, mission speakers (forgot which model) paired with a t-amp. I thought it sounded pretty good, until he took out his NAD. I forgot the model, but it was cheap, around USD150.

The moment the music was turned on, i could hear the difference right away. It was a huge, huge difference. Resolution, transparency was much better and the bass was more well-controlled, tighter.

I couldn't believe that the amp could make such a big difference. And to be honest, i would not have thought the t-amp was doing a bad job providing power if i didn't hear a better amp. The thing to note here is, the int. amp i heard didn't even cost that much compared to the t-amp, if we consider what most hifi enthusiasts spend on their setup. Yet the improvement was vast.

That lesson pretty much taught me that amps are everything for passive speakers. In considering a pair of passive speakers, the amp choice should be as important as the speakers themselves.

If your budget is limited, you're better off just getting actives like audioengine a5s. They will definitely sound better than an entry level passive + amp setup, or a poorly amped b&w or equivalent