Native DSD vs transcription to PCM

[RJHD3]

General education question from myself for the best and brightest:

I haven’t been able to figure out if Native DSD support is an aspect spqnning all DACs based per the processor or if it’s specific to a given manufacturer’s implementation.

For example could an ESS Saber DAC 9038 used in a Topping DAC support native DSD while an SMSL DAc using the same DAC be set up in such a way that it didn’t?

Thanks for the educational moment!

 

[tomb]

General education question from myself for the best and brightest:

I haven’t been able to figure out if Native DSD support is an aspect spqnning all DACs based per the processor or if it’s specific to a given manufacturer’s implementation.

For example could an ESS Saber DAC 9038 used in a Topping DAC support native DSD while an SMSL DAc using the same DAC be set up in such a way that it didn’t?

Thanks for the educational moment!

I see nothing in the ESS 9038 datasheet that says it can convert DSD to PCM. It does use DoP, which is a method of encapsulating the DSD data into PCM frames for transmission. This is because DSD can't be natively transmitted over USB without special drivers. Everything I've read indicates that the DSD data is completely untouched and reassembled at the transmission destination for the USB stream. There is also very little processing power needed to reassemble the DSD out of the PCM frames.

It could be possible that the DSD is converted to PCM somewhere else in the device if the required chips are used. That would seem unlikely, since the ESS chip can natively interface with either DSD or PCM input, rendering the need for conversion useless. The only reason to convert from DSD to PCM is if the DAC chip has no DSD-to-analog conversion capability. In that case, the DSD would be converted to PCM so that the DAC chip could use the PCM to convert to analog.

My answer is that it's highly unlikely, since the DAC chip has the capability to convert native DSD to analog. I'm no expert in this stuff, for certain, but that's how my limited understanding perceives the answer to your question.

 

[RJHD3]

I see nothing in the ESS 9038 datasheet that says it can convert DSD to PCM.

Thanks for the answer!

My question was general, not specific to that chip. I’ve read that some (many) DACs handle either PCM by converting to DSD or vice versa. That is to say, not all chipsets support dual native.

If that’s the case just curious where the control of that aspect of the implementation is. Essentially asking, is there possible differentiation in that space per each manufacturers design even when using the same core chipset.

 

[Roseval]

This is because DSD can't be natively transmitted over USB without special drivers.

No, it is part of the UAC2.
UAC2 has 2 modes, UAC_FORMAT_TYPEI_PCM and · UAC_FORMAT_TYPEI_RAW_DATA
The latter is used to transmit pure DSD without embedding it in a PCM stream like DoP does.

 

[tomb]

No, it is part of the UAC2.
UAC2 has 2 modes, UAC_FORMAT_TYPEI_PCM and · UAC_FORMAT_TYPEI_RAW_DATA
The latter is used to transmit pure DSD without embedding it in a PCM stream like DoP does.

Sounds good, but you need to describe UAC2. A magic acronym doesn't win arguments with an ignorant audience.

 

[Roseval]

UAC2=USB Audio Class 2 standard as published in 2009. As it uses High Speed (480 MHz), it can do formats like 2 channel 32 bit 768 kHz PCM or 512 DSD.

 

[tomb]

"UAC2=USB Audio Class 2 standard" that would've sufficed.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

General education question from myself for the best and brightest:

I haven’t been able to figure out if Native DSD support is an aspect spqnning all DACs based per the processor or if it’s specific to a given manufacturer’s implementation.

For example could an ESS Saber DAC 9038 used in a Topping DAC support native DSD while an SMSL DAc using the same DAC be set up in such a way that it didn’t?

Thanks for the educational moment!

Absolutely, different implementations can support whatever they choose to and ignore whatever they choose to. The DAC chip is just the beginning.

Some DACs do transcoding to PCM and some do that and add native DSD as selectable option (i.e. RME). Native DSD cannot be volume controlled, so you would need to use a preamp after the DAC.