[u2u2]

Short answer is the App performance may be a network problem.

Long answer, my storey:

When I added a Uniti Core Server to my setup I had some issues with the Naim app. It was somewhat erratic (sluggish, didn't always display track times or scroll track info etc) and the experience wasn't up to par with the hardware. The server is ethernet based (no wifi capability) which was a selling point for a more pure interference free system...
When I added the Atom HE the HE was setup on wifi. App issues persisted and I had some intermittent issues suggestive of interference in the network. These were various breaks and spots of static in the audio.
I then purchased all new ethernet cables and put the entire system on ethernet... No luck and with only the phone on wifi to run the app I removed components including a new ehernet switch and went entirely direct to the router. No luck.
Pulled all the new ethernet cables and one by one installed old "free" cables that came with modems and routers over many years. App started working better, but not great. Intermittent audio issues still present but reduced.
Bought "audiophile" category 7 ethernet cables and put the Ethernet switch back in and found utopia. Problems solved and the Naim App runs flawlessly. Category 5e and some Category 6 cables seemed to be at fault. No lags or delays BUT I am immersed in the Apple world so this info may be of use or not. I think I have run the Atom HE in every setup permutation possible now and it works every which way no matter my less than competent efforts.

Spent a lot of time reading the ethernet thread on this site. Cables ought not to matter, but my experience was they do and they were a massive factor in my case.

cAsE eSiTiVe is having the opposite experience to mine when listening direct from the HE (I usually use it as a pre amp). On my Utopias (with Silver Dragons) and HD800 cans - I find too much resolution with some female vocals being too forward for my tastes. I have probably spent too much time listening on tube amps

 

[tdx]

What about this unit:

https://www.kevalinaudio.com/product-page/waversa-mini-headphone-amplifier

Seems to have a more powerful HP output than the Naim. Would that be better to drive Susvaras?

Thanks

 

[iamoneagain]

I have had the Atom HE here at home for a week now......and have had music running through it the entire time to break it in. So far, my two complaints with it are: The Naim app isn't really that great. It tends to hang up briefly when quickly scrolling through Qobuz to find an album in my list I want to play. Even though my Lumin app has its faults, so far it's miles more responsive.

The other issue is that the top end seems to be lacking in ultimate resolution and air, to the point where I am very noticeably missing important spatial cues on music I'm intimately familiar with. Otherwise, music is cleanly reproduced, very muscular and dynamic...but curiously ever so slightly recessed in the vocal range, particularly on female vocals that typically show up front and ahead of the mix, yet on the HE, tend to have the details buried a little further back. This is in direct comparison vs my Lumin/Beta 22 combo with my Audeze LCD-2.2 (pre-fazors). I plan on trying the Atom out as a pre-amp, running into the Beta 22's....and see if I can pry a bit more from it. I know it's a cliche, but the sound from the HE is unfailingly musical, with good depth and width...and with excellent separation of instruments. If I could just bring out a little more hint of the recording venue in well-recorded music, and I can get the Naim app to work a little better, I could live with it. The all-in-one convenience is enticing for a second system.

As a side note, if you don't require Chromecast with your setup, I strongly advise disabling it completely. After running it enabled, and then now, disabled....I'm confident that it denigrates the sound to a noticeable degree. It immediately opened up to a larger degree after getting rid of it. Unless you're married to it, I strongly advise ditching it.

How do you disable Chromecast? I see other inputs allow me to disable but not chromecast.

And as far as air goes, it took about a month or so to really open up its sound. Was closed in and congested sounding when I first got it even compared to Focal Arche but now sounds great. Resolution isn’t bad but it’s still not on the same level as Chord Dave. The Naim seems to aim more for the weight and pace of music than getting the last ounce out of detail.

 

[cAsE sEnSiTiVe]

How do you disable Chromecast? I see other inputs allow me to disable but not chromecast.

And as far as air goes, it took about a month or so to really open up its sound. Was closed in and congested sounding when I first got it even compared to Focal Arche but now sounds great. Resolution isn’t bad but it’s still not on the same level as Chord Dave. The Naim seems to aim more for the weight and pace of music than getting the last ounce out of detail.

Unfortunately, to get rid of Chromecast, you'll have to do a factory reset, then when you're back in the setup wizard, say 'no' when it asks you to enable Chromecast. I initially balked at doing the reset, but it was worth it. It still remembers what you had before as far as room naming..etc..etc. So no harm done.

I agree with you...resolution is pretty good, like most Naim products I've heard, their bread and butter is indeed PRaT as opposed to giving you the last nth degree of the recording. For the money spent, I doubt there is an all-in-one that will match it, all things considered. I will run it in some more and see if things get a bit better.

 

[cAsE sEnSiTiVe]

Short answer is the App performance may be a network problem.

Long answer, my storey:

When I added a Uniti Core Server to my setup I had some issues with the Naim app. It was somewhat erratic (sluggish, didn't always display track times or scroll track info etc) and the experience wasn't up to par with the hardware. The server is ethernet based (no wifi capability) which was a selling point for a more pure interference free system...
When I added the Atom HE the HE was setup on wifi. App issues persisted and I had some intermittent issues suggestive of interference in the network. These were various breaks and spots of static in the audio.
I then purchased all new ethernet cables and put the entire system on ethernet... No luck and with only the phone on wifi to run the app I removed components including a new ehernet switch and went entirely direct to the router. No luck.
Pulled all the new ethernet cables and one by one installed old "free" cables that came with modems and routers over many years. App started working better, but not great. Intermittent audio issues still present but reduced.
Bought "audiophile" category 7 ethernet cables and put the Ethernet switch back in and found utopia. Problems solved and the Naim App runs flawlessly. Category 5e and some Category 6 cables seemed to be at fault. No lags or delays BUT I am immersed in the Apple world so this info may be of use or not. I think I have run the Atom HE in every setup permutation possible now and it works every which way no matter my less than competent efforts.

Spent a lot of time reading the ethernet thread on this site. Cables ought not to matter, but my experience was they do and they were a massive factor in my case.

cAsE eSiTiVe is having the opposite experience to mine when listening direct from the HE (I usually use it as a pre amp). On my Utopias (with Silver Dragons) and HD800 cans - I find too much resolution with some female vocals being too forward for my tastes. I have probably spent too much time listening on tube amps

Thanks for the reply. My internet here is very fast (900+ Mbps), using a Cat7 ethernet connection. The internal Ethernet for the Naim only supports 10/100Mbps, so anything faster is probably a moot point. My Lumin app on the same setup, is very obviously quicker and more responsive. I'm wondering if running the app through Roon would make a difference, and perhaps Qobuz within the Naim app weren't meant to run flawlessly. I will likely check out that option, as I've been considering signing up for Roon.

 

[Derivative]

Good point. I'd be using the utopias with a mojo on my dap anyhow. But I find the mojo battery situation a pain when using a desktop. My thinking is that if I am buying the Utopias anyhow, by buying a DAC amp at the same time I may get some discount. So I'm thinking of Arche, SPL or HE.

There's a way around the Mojo battery situation, as described in this video:



tried it on mine and it's straight forward. you'll need a separate USB cable to power it but it's worth it for the increased versatility in my view.

 

[Tanalasta]

I have had the Atom HE here at home for a week now......and have had music running through it the entire time to break it in. So far, my two complaints with it are: The Naim app isn't really that great. It tends to hang up briefly when quickly scrolling through Qobuz to find an album in my list I want to play. Even though my Lumin app has its faults, so far it's miles more responsive.

The other issue is that the top end seems to be lacking in ultimate resolution and air, to the point where I am very noticeably missing important spatial cues on music I'm intimately familiar with. Otherwise, music is cleanly reproduced, very muscular and dynamic...but curiously ever so slightly recessed in the vocal range, particularly on female vocals that typically show up front and ahead of the mix, yet on the HE, tend to have the details buried a little further back.

Agreed. And then I thought about the price point and all that it does. There had to be some compromises made in the DAC quality at this price point.

I use ROON so haven't noticed many integration issues at all. There was an earlier discussion about subtle sound difference between ROON and NAIM's inbuilt app (and it's very very subtle) so I'm not surprised small little things can affect the sound quality. Requires an astute ear and resolving headphones.

But I enjoy the NAIM. Greatly. And use it 99% more than the Chord TT2 which - although has more resolution and air - has sat on a shelf with probably <30 hours of play time since I bought it new.

 

[iamoneagain]

It’s weird that technically the Chord Dave/mscaler should have been much better. I can play the songs I knew the mscaler brought out the best in and still hear how the Naim HE falls short in the ability to separate the layers and give the most life like sound. But then there albums like Kate Bush’s remastered albums that I was hoping would sound amazing with the Chord stack but fell short. I just listened to Hounds of Love and it sound perfect on the Naim. It’s that extra weight and texture it brings. You feel the music instead of trying to pick it apart. So for me, the Naim HE does a better job on my whole collection than Chord does. Chord surpasses Naim on the right albums but I don’t want to pick and choose, I just want play music and enjoy.

 

[ChrisSC]

Seriously thinking about buying this product, but have a quick question that hopefully an owner can answer:

If I play songs via Apple Music app on an iPad, will Atom stream lossy or lossless?

 

[iamoneagain]

Seriously thinking about buying this product, but have a quick question that hopefully an owner can answer:

If I play songs via Apple Music app on an iPad, will Atom stream lossy or lossless?

Sorry, not Naim’s fault, but it’s currently lossy. Apple Music plays lossy to anything using Airplay 2, which Naim uses. Their tech showed latest iOS is still lossy.

Not actually sure how you’d get lossless to work since Naim doesn’t accept USB dac connections, so can’t just use camera connector.

I use roon with Qobuz and that works great. I’ve been waiting patiently for Spotify HIfi to come out since Spotify connect works great too and has better catalog. Think CD quality is all you really need, hires hard to tell improvement but still choose it with Qobuz when offered.

 

[ClicketEKlack]

Sorry, not Naim’s fault, but it’s currently lossy. Apple Music plays lossy to anything using Airplay 2, which Naim uses. Their tech showed latest iOS is still lossy.

Not actually sure how you’d get lossless to work since Naim doesn’t accept USB dac connections, so can’t just use camera connector.

I use roon with Qobuz and that works great. I’ve been waiting patiently for Spotify HIfi to come out since Spotify connect works great too and has better catalog. Think CD quality is all you really need, hires hard to tell improvement but still choose it with Qobuz when offered.

Such a bummer. TIdal and Qobuz are great, but don’t make much financial sense now that Apple Music is lossless. A USB input would have solved everything.

 

[ChrisSC]

Sorry, not Naim’s fault, but it’s currently lossy. Apple Music plays lossy to anything using Airplay 2, which Naim uses. Their tech showed latest iOS is still lossy.

Not actually sure how you’d get lossless to work since Naim doesn’t accept USB dac connections, so can’t just use camera connector.

I use roon with Qobuz and that works great. I’ve been waiting patiently for Spotify HIfi to come out since Spotify connect works great too and has better catalog. Think CD quality is all you really need, hires hard to tell improvement but still choose it with Qobuz when offered.

Such a bummer. TIdal and Qobuz are great, but don’t make much financial sense now that Apple Music is lossless. A USB input would have solved everything.

Bummer indeed - was hoping for a clean and simple setup, but of course that's not possible, because why would anything headphone-related ever be easy? At least it seems that lossless is just a firmware update away, and hopefully sooner rather than later.

 

[iamoneagain]

Bummer indeed - was hoping for a clean and simple setup, but of course that's not possible, because why would anything headphone-related ever be easy? At least it seems that lossless is just a firmware update away, and hopefully sooner rather than later.

As I mentioned, this has nothing to do with Naim, this is all on Apple. It will be lossy on any AirPlay 2 system. There is nothing Naim can change in the firmware to fix this. If you use AirPlay for Qobuz, Amazon Music, Tidal, it’s all lossless. Only Apple Music streams lossy. Someone thought they do this to better handle playing to multiple devices at same time, so it was intentional.

Some people have found workarounds to get Apple Music to play lossless but seems to defeat the nice wireless plug and play aspect of the Naim. They just recently added Tidal Connect but can’t play MQA, but still might be a good option if want bigger catalog than Qobuz. And Spotify hifi should be here before end of the year. Also possible Apple will change how it streams over AirPlay 2.

 

[ChrisSC]

As I mentioned, this has nothing to do with Naim, this is all on Apple. It will be lossy on any AirPlay 2 system. There is nothing Naim can change in the firmware to fix this. If you use AirPlay for Qobuz, Amazon Music, Tidal, it’s all lossless. Only Apple Music streams lossy. Someone thought they do this to better handle playing to multiple devices at same time, so it was intentional.

Some people have found workarounds to get Apple Music to play lossless but seems to defeat the nice wireless plug and play aspect of the Naim. They just recently added Tidal Connect but can’t play MQA, but still might be a good option if want bigger catalog than Qobuz. And Spotify hifi should be here before end of the year. Also possible Apple will change how it streams over AirPlay 2.

Sorry, if I wasn’t clear earlier, yes, I get that the fault lies with Apple. Interesting insight that they did so because of bandwidth concerns. By any chance, have you been able to a/b lossy vs. lossless on the Naim? If so, is there a noticeable drop in sound quality?

 

[iamoneagain]

Sorry, if I wasn’t clear earlier, yes, I get that the fault lies with Apple. Interesting insight that they did so because of bandwidth concerns. By any chance, have you been able to a/b lossy vs. lossless on the Naim? If so, is there a noticeable drop in sound quality?

In one of the beta versions of ios15 Apple Music sounded different from ios14 and tricked me into thinking it was lossless. But now playing same song in Qobuz vs Apple Music using Airplay, Qobuz clearly sounds better. There is more air, better soundstage, and no blurring. Apple Music has a softer sound. It still sounds pretty good and sometimes hard to tell, but mostly it’s that missing air that makes the difference. I’m using Focal Utopia’s with Danacable, so I have excellent detail retrieval.