[MwAvGuy]

All I'm saying is the HP-50 doesn't lack anything on the mid-bass. It's very accurate in there. I've compared its sub-bass to mid-bass to upper bass to speakers and I find it to be very accurate. I'm saying its just that it doesn't emphasize mid-bass nor lack sub-bass. So if the recording has sub-bass, it wouldn't sound like an impactful mid-bass, it would sould like a more rumbling or enveloping kind of sub-bass, which is what it should be.

Again, haven't heard the PM-3, but I haven't heard a HP that is inconsistent with its FR graph. Zero.

Which FR graph on HeadRoom do you use? The plain FR, FRC or FR Raw?

 

[diamondears]

Which FR graph on HeadRoom do you use? The plain FR, FRC or FR Raw?

Doesn't matter for as long as you're comparing same type of graph. But I look at the innerfidelity graphs if available.

 

[MwAvGuy]

Doesn't matter for as long as you're comparing same type of graph. But I look at the innerfidelity graphs if available.

When you look at the innerfidelity frequency response compensated (top), can you directly compare that to the FRC on headroom? For instance, Oppo PM-3 FRC curve is only on innerfidelity but not headroom, and many other headphones are vice versa.

 

[diamondears]

When you look at the innerfidelity frequency response compensated (top), can you directly compare that to the FRC on headroom? For instance, Oppo PM-3 FRC curve is only on innerfidelity but not headroom, and many other headphones are vice versa.

Innerfidelity have FR graphs for both HP-50 and PM-3.

Look at it this way, I've had both LCD-2F and LCD-2.2 non/pre-fazor, and IMHO the HP-50 has more accurate bass, both in quantity and quality. As to mids and treble, even moreso. Soundstaging, really great. But again, you have to consider also the comfort because if you have a big or "high" top of head relative to your ears, the HP-50 is a pain on top of the head after just several minutes.

 

[MwAvGuy]

Innerfidelity have FR graphs for both HP-50 and PM-3.

Look at it this way, I've had both LCD-2F and LCD-2.2 non/pre-fazor, and IMHO the HP-50 has more accurate bass, both in quantity and quality. As to mids and treble, even moreso. Soundstaging, really great. But again, you have to consider also the comfort because if you have a big or "high" top of head relative to your ears, the HP-50 is a pain on top of the head after just several minutes.

 
I mean, there are other headphones whose FR graphs aren't on IF but are on HR.
 
I'm not sure what "high" top of head relative to ears means!

 

[diamondears]

I mean, there are other headphones whose FR graphs aren't on IF but are on HR.

I'm not sure what "high" top of head relative to ears means!

I've not really studied in depth the differences in types of graphs, so I don't compare different HPs using differently sourced/measured graphs. But why does this matter, PM-3 and HP-50 both has FR graphs by innerfidelity?

If you have a big head and/or the top of your head is quite high and far from your ears, you would have to really max out and pull down the cups from the headband, which would put pressure on top of your head.

 

[diamondears]

Anybody tried putting the HP-50's internals into the PSB M4U1's externals?

 

[shabta]

Again, haven't heard the PM-3, but I haven't heard a HP that is inconsistent with its FR graph. Zero.

That isn't the same as saying you know what a headphone will sound like from reading a graph.  BTW do you read the graph before or after you listen to a headphone? There is a lot of confirmation bias problems if you read a graph and then listen to the headphone...While I love the sound of the HP50s, the headphone is definitely tilted toward the bass. And trying to say because you listened to some speakers (which ones, in what kind of room? Through what kind of source/amp? Were the headphones run through the exact same equipment) and then can declare that the HP50s Bass is accurate is not a particularly meaningful statement. The HP50s are a very nice headphone that do a lot of things right but are pretty far from the last word in accurate headphone sound reproduction. Except for you

 

[Jeff Y]

 
The HP50s are a very nice headphone that do a lot of things right but are pretty far from the last word in accurate headphone sound reproduction.

Not related to what you were saying but I don't think there is any headphone that get everything right. yet.

 

[diamondears]

That isn't the same as saying you know what a headphone will sound like from reading a graph.  BTW do you read the graph before or after you listen to a headphone? There is a lot of confirmation bias problems if you read a graph and then listen to the headphone...While I love the sound of the HP50s, the headphone is definitely tilted toward the bass. And trying to say because you listened to some speakers (which ones, in what kind of room? Through what kind of source/amp? Were the headphones run through the exact same equipment) and then can declare that the HP50s Bass is accurate is not a particularly meaningful statement. The HP50s are a very nice headphone that do a lot of things right but are pretty far from the last word in accurate headphone sound reproduction. Except for you

The psycho-acoustic bias can also be argued inversely---you've been told or led to believe that FR graphs doesn't reflect the true frequency reaponse of a HP in the real world, hence FR graphs indeed doesn't reflect true frequency response!

IMHO/IMHE, the only thing the FR graph doesn't show is the sound signature...difficult to explain...but the amount of bass, mids and treble frequencies, they're as accurate as anything.

It's our ears that aren't perfect anymore. Plus our ears adapt to whatever you've been listening to for so long. So objective FR graphs are very useful IMHO/IMHE. Even live musicians' ears adjust. I'm sure metal rock musicians would prefer treble oriented HPs.

I myself don't trust my ears and brain. If I hear something that is off from an FR graph, considering the Harman/Olive curve principles that I believe in, I totally deprive myself from any music, HP or speakers, have my ears cleaned up, and guess what?--The FR graph is correct. There is a reason why most kids like bass. It's bass heavy to some, but definitely flat to them. That is why the HD800 sounds bright to most young folks, and Beats/bassy sound signature they prefer.

 

[diamondears]

Not related to what you were saying but I don't think there is any headphone that get everything right. yet.

Yes, but the HP50 is closest IMHO. Made me believe on the Harman/Olive curve. That's why I've always been itching for a better phone before, now just a better headband. My wish right now is an open back HP that conforms to the Harman curve. There ain't any yet...I think. Is there?

 

[Jeff Y]

Yes, but the HP50 is closest IMHO. Made me believe on the Harman/Olive curve. That's why I've always been itching for a better phone before, now just a better headband. My wish right now is an open back HP that conforms to the Harman curve. There ain't any yet...I think. Is there?

I don't think so. Your wish was mine exactly when Paul Barton said earlier this year that he's working on a new headphone inbound later this year.
Meanwhile I'm going to enjoy my HP50s, HD650s, Grados, and more, dreaming of one such headphone.
I'm in the process of getting my HP50 fixed atm but once I do I can plug them into my latest purchase, Chord Hugo! I haven't been able to do so yet but I expect a lot from the combination. Even more than the combination with a AK240 which imo was the best I've heard out of the HP50 so far. But then my favourite headphone store's got the AK360 out now and there's supposed to be a AK480 coming out later...
First world problems.

 

[shabta]

  Not related to what you were saying but I don't think there is any headphone that get everything right. yet.

+1 But the HP50s just don't come close to most of the TOTL headphones or many decent speaker rigs. But for the money, the sound is good.

 

[shabta]

The psycho-acoustic bias can also be argued inversely---you've been told or led to believe that FR graphs doesn't reflect the true frequency reaponse of a HP in the real world, hence FR graphs indeed doesn't reflect true frequency response!

 

Sure. Then we agree that if you look at a frequency graph before you hear a headphone, it will affect how you hear the phone. Maybe that is why Tyll seems to do some critical listening before he measures the headphone.
 
 

 There is a reason why most kids like bass. It's bass heavy to some, but definitely flat to them. That is why the HD800 sounds bright to most young folks, and Beats/bassy sound signature they prefer.

I think you misunderstand why most kids like bass. It has to do with the rise of HipHop/Rap as the major influence on pop music. And of course after the success of Beats, they started mixing music to sound good on those headphones. Just like how some hit makers in the 60s and 70s would play the music on a transistor radio to check the mix... And in my experience most young people love a high end pair of phones when they finally get to hear one, even the HD800 which most certainly is not bass light.

 

[diamondears]

Sure. Then we agree that if you look at a frequency graph before you hear a headphone, it will affect how you hear the phone. Maybe that is why Tyll seems to do some critical listening before he measures the headphone.


I think you misunderstand why most kids like bass. It has to do with the rise of HipHop/Rap as the major influence on pop music. And of course after the success of Beats, they started mixing music to sound good on those headphones. Just like how some hit makers in the 60s and 70s would play the music on a transistor radio to check the mix... And in my experience most young people love a high end pair of phones when they finally get to hear one, even the HD800 which most certainly is not bass light.

No, I don't agree with you at all.