[krmathis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebob /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you 'buy' music in any of these formats (until the DRM free, more expensive iTunes songs came along) it is DRM'd.

Thats a false statement!

There are several websites out there selling music in those formats without any kind of DRM protection. Linn Records as an example. They sell music in WMA and MP3 format, without any attached DRM

 

[nc8000]

As an aside the latest iteration of aac aac+ will be the codec used in the next generation of DAB radio starting up on a test basis in UK (and probably other places). This certainly has nothing to do with Apple nor iTunes. The reason being that aac+ will give better quality at the same bitrate or same quality at a lower bitrate than the current mpeg2 codec. My guess will be same (lousy) quality at a lower bitrate so they can squeze even more stations in.

 

[thebob]

Quote:

Originally Posted by zip22 /img/forum/go_quote.gif you can burn some Playsforsure files to a CD (depends on how tight the vendor locks it down). technically, i am sure that burning Fairplay tracks to re-import them is 100% legal, but i think it has even been suggested by steve jobs himself.

FairPlay tracks are only sold through the apple store, it is the front end iTunes that contains DRM, not the files.

Leagally you are allowed to use these on up to 5 authorised computers and back them up to CD in any format you like.

 

[thebob]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILikeMusic /img/forum/go_quote.gif Not MP3. The MP3 format doesn't support DRM.

Apples format dosen't support DRM either it is only implimented in iTunes.

It is only iTunes that keeps track of witch files you have bought and stops you from using them on unauthorised computers.

The file itself is not changed in any way. PlaysForSure are specificly encoded to annoy everyone. That is why no one uses them.

 

[ILikeMusic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebob /img/forum/go_quote.gif Apples format dosen't support DRM either it is only implimented in iTunes. It is only iTunes that keeps track of witch files you have bought and stops you from using them on unauthorised computers. The file itself is not changed in any way.

Uhh, I don't think so... in fact that doesn't even make sense. If the file isn't modified in any way and it is only iTunes that restricts playback why couldn't one simply play (or distribute) the file without restrictions just by using playback software other than iTunes? And if this were the case DRM would be totally ineffective.

In fact .AAC (which isn't proprietary and thus not 'Apple's format', just the one that they have decided to use with iTunes) does support DRM. Apple uses a version of DRM called Fairplay which is proprietary to Apple, perhaps that is where you got confused.

 

[zip22]

thebob, the audio files are encrypted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FairPlay_%28DRM%29

Quote:

FairPlay-protected files are regular MP4 container files with an encrypted AAC audio stream. The audio stream is encrypted using the Rijndael algorithm in combination with MD5 hashes. The master key required to decrypt the encrypted audio stream is also stored in encrypted form in the MP4 container file. The key required to decrypt the master key is called the "user key." Each time a customer uses iTunes to buy a track a new random user key is generated and used to encrypt the master key. The random user key is stored, together with the account information, on Apple’s servers, and also sent to iTunes. iTunes stores these keys in its own encrypted key repository. Using this key repository, iTunes is able to retrieve the user key required to decrypt the master key. Using the master key, iTunes is able to decrypt the AAC audio stream and play it. When a user authorizes a new computer, iTunes sends a unique machine identifier to Apple’s servers. In return it receives all the user keys that are stored with the account information. This ensures that Apple is able to limit the number of computers that are authorized and makes sure that each authorized computer has all the user keys that are needed to play the tracks that it bought. When a user deauthorizes a computer, iTunes will instruct Apple’s servers to remove the unique machine identifier from their database, and at the same time it will remove all the user keys from its encrypted key repository. The iPod also has its own encrypted key repository. Every time a FairPlay-protected track is copied onto the iPod, iTunes will copy the user key from its own key repository to the key repository on the iPod. This makes sure that the iPod has everything it needs to play the encrypted AAC audio stream.

i also meant to say "i am not sure that it is 100% legal" and i corrected it in my original post.

 

[Sparky191]

Why do few manufactures use ACC?

 

[Sparky191]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shigzeo /img/forum/go_quote.gif ....i was locked for years into a very hard format, atrac and eventually to atrac3 and atrac3 plus. i liked their sound, but all my cd's had to be re-recorded and of course were locked into the minidisk physical shell. .... i have a shuffle, that is my only apple product. i hate it. itunes broke it so i got the new one and i hate it even more for hardware design. the 1st gen shuffle was perfect before it became a paperweight; the second one is full of design flaws from the very bottom to the very top. ....

Could you not just burn a Audio CD from ATRAC and rip that? Maybe you couldn't do that in earlier versions, I'm too used to the current ATRAC/SonicStage where most of those DRM limitations have been removed.

If you want to get the best encoding in any format, you are best going back to the original CD's rather than transcoding lossy and compressed files. ATRAC is no different in that regard.

I agree with you about the Shuffle. I had the same experience with 1st & 2nd gen.

 

[thebob]

Quote:

Originally Posted by zip22 /img/forum/go_quote.gif thebob, the audio files are encrypted. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FairPlay_%28DRM%29 i also meant to say "i am not sure that it is 100% legal" and i corrected it in my original post.

Thanks for that I had a completely different handle on what went on. I'm presently re-ripping my CD's into Apple lossless. I hope I'm not making a mistake.

 

[zip22]

ripping cds into AAC or Apple Lossless does not encrypt anything. the files do not have DRM.

AAC files with fairplay DRM bought from the iTunes Store DO have DRM and are encrypted.

 

[thebob]

Quote:

Originally Posted by zip22 /img/forum/go_quote.gif ripping cds into AAC or Apple Lossless does not encrypt anything. the files do not have DRM. AAC files with fairplay DRM bought from the iTunes Store DO have DRM and are encrypted.

I'm more worried about another format coming along so that I have to reencode my collection. Its good I kept my CD's.

I'd like iTunes to have a kind of buy for life policy, they are now selling lossless files but what if you already have bought the same songs in the lossy format? There should be an upgrade policy. What if again in a few years they start selling an even higher quality. Shouldn't we be able to upgrade?

 

[zip22]

iTunes Store is not selling lossless files. they are now selling EMI music in 256kbps AAC on the iTunes Plus Store, but that is not lossless. they are also offering upgrades if you would like to re-purchase your 128kbps songs.

since you are ripping in lossless, re-encoding should be a breeze if you need to in the future. you should be able to just start a program working on those lossless files and it will convert them all without interaction from you. ripping in lossless is probably the best protection against future formats as you will be able to adapt relatively easily.

 

[jmourik]

Well, all of this talk about aac made me run some tests and I've now encoded all my music to aac. I used Dbpoweramp with the Nero aac codec, quality .45. It did some dbt with foobar and couldn't tell the difference from .45 on up, so that should do Now I can get all my music stuffed onto the Zune...

 

[e_resolu]

Here is another link you should find very usefull :

http://www.codingtechnologies.com/products/index.htm

 

[Hooah]

I know this is getting off topic, but if more people pushed for an actual open format like FLAC, then life would be easier. We would just need bigger storage and longer batteries. I am very happy that FLAC has gotten the amount of support it has so far since I was an early supporter.