My Two Cents: It is NOT okay to cross signals in a cable...

[fierce_freak]

Yeah, I considered that could be what he meant, too. I just was a little annoyed and probably over-reacted

 

[Xan7hos]

Subjectively speaking, when people speak of improvements due to recabling..whether be it Star Quad (Canare, Mogami, and even Cardas) or litz braided Jena, SPC, or UPOCC wires, how much of an influence does crosstalk play? Putting psychological biases aside, can we assume that even with the same wire, with a different implementation, should the sound sound better?

I.e. a dual litz braid 2x4 wire braid, which are isolated from each other would be superior to that of a litz braid (4 wires interbraided together in stereo format)?

 

[Peyotero]

I'm not sure this thread is about different quality cables/materials and their impact on sound. More about the right way to make a cable and a freestyle cable (aka no rules applied).

I.e you missed the whole point of it. aka 8 conductor cable with 4 conductor separatly Litz Braided= proper Litz Braid for unbalanced stereo cable.
4 conductor cable braided "Litz Braid style" then y split into a stereo configuration= cheap workaround shortcut that probably introduces crosstalk and it's not clear if you even achieve Litz Braid's main and only goal- shielding.


SQ differences between cables are a cloudy subgect and there's no concensus about it. +SQ is subgective and metter of tatse. One could argue about it till the world goes back flat again.
While there is a general concensus on the right and wrong way to make a stereo cable- YOU DON'T MIX CHANNELS. Pure science backed up by scientists and not us audio loonies

As for crosstalk influence, just google it. It's pretty severe. Here's an extreme example.

Regardles, if you'd ask me, I'd pick a professionally made durable cable over some freestyle aftermarket bling bling stuff any day. Unless it atleast folows one basic rule- don't mix them damn channels. No one does that. Why would you? I'd understand if one made up good enough reason for that and try to sell it as the new big thing. I wouldn't mind since I don't belive 90% of the rest of the stuff he said (aka cryo treatment etc..) But no one even proposed a reson for intermixing channels aside from cutting costs and convinience.

 

[Xan7hos]

Okay, so lets say I want to recable my headphone, and i have a 100ft. spool of [you favorite wire here] @ [favorite AWG here] and I want to terminate in a 1/8" Stereo Plug (or 1/4" plug if you prefer).

What in your opinion is the best way to do this? (assuming you have material to shield it as well..or any and all material for that matter)

 

[les_garten]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xan7hos /img/forum/go_quote.gif Okay, so lets say I want to recable my headphone, and i have a 100ft. spool of [you favorite wire here] @ [favorite AWG here] and I want to terminate in a 1/8" Stereo Plug (or 1/4" plug if you prefer). What in your opinion is the best way to do this? (assuming you have material to shield it as well..or any and all material for that matter)

Hopefully I'll have PIX in two weeks to show the whole deal. Although my favorite wire won't do 1/8".

.

 

[Peyotero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xan7hos /img/forum/go_quote.gif Okay, so lets say I want to recable my headphone, and i have a 100ft. spool of [you favorite wire here] @ [favorite AWG here] and I want to terminate in a 1/8" Stereo Plug (or 1/4" plug if you prefer). What in your opinion is the best way to do this? (assuming you have material to shield it as well..or any and all material for that matter)

That one is a better question. I'm still in the prosess of figuring out this for myself. I thought either about making two 4 litz braid runs with some SPC with heatshrink all over each run and then both in nylon sleevin. OR stripping the pvc insulation from two canare/mogami/whatever then shrink all over the shield (or even strip the shield aswell) and then nylon sleeve/tech flex.

Way more expencive then your typical recables around here but that's what I have for now...

 

[Xan7hos]

yes it seems like ideally the best headphone recable is a balanced setup where the channels are completely indepedent from one another (sort of like speaker wires i assume), however being that they are headphone cables that are terminated in a phono plug, there's a matter of how to address the part below the "Y" split and how they can be joined without cross talk.

Looking forward to your pictures!

 

[les_garten]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xan7hos /img/forum/go_quote.gif yes it seems like ideally the best headphone recable is a balanced setup where the channels are completely indepedent from one another (sort of like speaker wires i assume), however being that they are headphone cables that are terminated in a phono plug, there's a matter of how to address the part below the "Y" split and how they can be joined without cross talk. Looking forward to your pictures!

Hi,
The only really good scenario is Fully Balanced wiring. But we'll see if we can come up with a decent single ended solution.

Les

 

[Good Times]

Ha, I'm glad, and yet frustrated that I've found this thread. I thought I had an adequate knowledge of cable building, and now you guys bring this up!!

 

[slypher]

I am in the prosses of having some 8 wire litz braided balanced sennheiser hd650 cables made. When I have them I will tell you what thay are like, hopefully by the weekend.

 

[dazzer1975]

This is an interesting discussion, and perhaps naively I thought there may have been a definitive answer and consensus on which was the correct way of braiding a headphone cable.

However, it would be interesting to know if anyone with a headphone cable "incorrectly braided" has been bothered even in the slightest with emi/rfi and/or cross talk?

Is there even a real world problem that people need to overcome here? Simply from the point of view of people's listening experiences.

 

[slypher]

It pionts out in the FAQ section of the chimera web site that he would not do it himself but he did recomend trying it to see what it was like and if any of the theorized chrosstalk exists.

 

[Good Times]

Can anyone tell me why crossing signal wires can cause more potential crosstalk than having two signal wires parallel to each other? Isn't it more about proximity rather than their relationship to each other?

 

[les_garten]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Good Times /img/forum/go_quote.gif Can anyone tell me why crossing signal wires can cause more potential crosstalk than having two signal wires parallel to each other? Isn't it more about proximity rather than their relationship to each other?

FSMA can't speak in this thread anymore. I actually started the original discussion with Kabeer about his cable. I don't make money building cables so I can speak here. The "crossing" phrase means putting the signals(L/R) in close intimate proximity with each other.

Headphone cables by their nature make handling of the signal wires difficult. The so called "Litz braid" takes these signal wires and moves them close together and away from each other as you run down the braid.

The Chimera site was designed around building MONO Interconnects. Not mixing up your signal wires in a pretty braid.

.

 

[S J]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dazzer1975 /img/forum/go_quote.gif However, it would be interesting to know if anyone with a headphone cable "incorrectly braided" has been bothered even in the slightest with emi/rfi and/or cross talk?

Nope! But then I've never heard a 'correctly' braided one, so maybe there is a difference that you can't hear... till... you hear it.....

If I read this thread correctly, 2 parallel twisted pairs should be okay? You don't get the shielding effect of a Litz braid, but you don't get the crosstalk you would from a braid with crossed L/R, right?