My Two Cents: It is NOT okay to cross signals in a cable...
Apr 21, 2009 at 9:37 PM Post #136 of 168
Quote:

Originally Posted by Peyotero /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Xan7hos, man, 20AWG? Why??? For the UPOCC cooper wire?
Are there no smaller awg for UPOCC out there? You could make a small power cable with that one
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EDIT: which headphones?



20AWG is the smallest they (Both Neotech and Soniccraft) offer :/, Believe me I'd go for 22 or 24 in a heartbeat. For a future project, MS2i
 
Apr 22, 2009 at 9:44 PM Post #138 of 168
Hey,
Got my Mondo Canare cable into the Furutech bushing today. Tight, baby Tight! I've decided to go Balanced on everything so not sure where that leaves my testing here. I will make a balanced<<>>TRS adapter for SE amps for all my CANz.

Ok, I got an idea. I'll make the Mondo Dual Quad canare cable about a foot longer than intended. Then I'll finish it out as a Senn cable. When I no longer need it single ended, I'll cut the end off and make a balanced adapter and term the cable balanced.

I'll make another Senn Cable with Cardas Smurf cable., and maybe another with Mogami Star Quad 2534.

And I'll have a stock Senn cable.

Then Compare and sell off all the Bad ones. I suspect my Dual Quad Canare will put them all in their place!

I'll shoot PIX.

Dis Freakin' Cable looks like an Anaconda!!

.
 
Apr 22, 2009 at 11:30 PM Post #139 of 168
Quote:

Originally Posted by Xan7hos /img/forum/go_quote.gif
20AWG is the smallest they (Both Neotech and Soniccraft) offer :/, Believe me I'd go for 22 or 24 in a heartbeat. For a future project, MS2i


I spy with my little eye some 22, 24 & 28 awg Neotech UPOCC wire. All in teflon insulation
beerchug.gif
 
Apr 23, 2009 at 5:45 AM Post #140 of 168
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonthouse /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I spy with my little eye some 22, 24 & 28 awg Neotech UPOCC wire. All in teflon insulation
beerchug.gif



Hi, I purposely chose an interconnect cable so that each channel will be shielded and isolated from one another. Otherwise I'd go opt with a custom litz braid StrandedUPOCC per channel design. I think Vampire Wire makes a good stranded cast copper cable, though they're 20AWG again. :/ Thanks though!
 
Apr 26, 2009 at 5:26 PM Post #141 of 168
Quote:

Originally Posted by les_garten /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Hey,
Got my Mondo Canare cable into the Furutech bushing today. Tight, baby Tight! I've decided to go Balanced on everything so not sure where that leaves my testing here. I will make a balanced<<>>TRS adapter for SE amps for all my CANz.

Ok, I got an idea. I'll make the Mondo Dual Quad canare cable about a foot longer than intended. Then I'll finish it out as a Senn cable. When I no longer need it single ended, I'll cut the end off and make a balanced adapter and term the cable balanced.

I'll make another Senn Cable with Cardas Smurf cable., and maybe another with Mogami Star Quad 2534.

And I'll have a stock Senn cable.

Then Compare and sell off all the Bad ones. I suspect my Dual Quad Canare will put them all in their place!

I'll shoot PIX.

Dis Freakin' Cable looks like an Anaconda!!

.



Yep, eventually, fully balanced seems to be the ultimate way to go. But I find this thread to be very usefull/intresting, still, because single ended is very widespread. And is gonna stay that way for a while.
 
Apr 26, 2009 at 5:43 PM Post #142 of 168
Quote:

Originally Posted by Peyotero /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Yep, eventually, fully balanced seems to be the ultimate way to go. But I find this thread to be very usefull/intresting, still, because single ended is very widespread. And is gonna stay that way for a while.


I ordered all the parts from Markertek this weekend. I should have the first three or four cables to test this week. The cables under test will be:

Senn Original
Senn My Dual Star Quad
Senn Cardas
Senn Mogami 2534

All cables will be terminated with Cardas Senn connectors and Furutech 1/4" Plugs.

TEST SETUP: HT Claro Halo >> BNC COAX OUT >> Audio-GD REF1 DAC >> DV 337SE >> TEST Cable >> SENN 650s

.
 
Apr 26, 2009 at 9:04 PM Post #144 of 168
I think it was because of MotT issues... I believe he originally posted a link to cables he manufactured and sold. Not entirely sure as it was corrected by the time I first read the thread, but if you look at the first few comments you can probably get that impression...
 
Apr 26, 2009 at 9:29 PM Post #145 of 168
Quote:

Originally Posted by AudioCats /img/forum/go_quote.gif
why not?

how did you know?



He sent me a PM after one of my posts telling me he had been throttled as a member of the trade.

.
 
May 4, 2009 at 3:44 PM Post #147 of 168
Quote:

Originally Posted by Good Times /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Any updates Les? I'm keen to hear your impressions.


Made other cables last week, so hopefully on the schedule for this week.

.
 
May 24, 2009 at 6:39 PM Post #148 of 168
Finally got around to reading this thread.... and the OP's initial remarks' questions come from the site that Les Garten Points out (the chimera labs). Well ... I'm a bit skeptical of the information written on that site especially after reading this under the faq section. I think if you litz braid (4 braid-round) the wire you won't develop cross talk in fact you'd minimize it as opposed to starquad configurations. I'll post a more detailed reasoning thats quasi-scientific (ie. dumbded down science) but here is the portion of the faq that makes me question all the info provided from that site. If you can understand what's wrong with these quotes, you'll quickly dismiss a good majority of what's been brought up in this thread. While this thread has raised questions, I think a good majority of hurt feelings and yelling matches have misled people. Please read the original post, and the original poster's source material.

From:
Chimera Labs Frequently Asked Questions

"Do you use some special tweaks or parts on your Advantage Interconnects, that will make them sound better than cables I build using your wire, solder and information?
Yes, in some cases my cables do sound better to some DIY efforts. I always
recommend that constructors read the Advantage Specification Sheet. It clearly details all the materials I use and covers almost all of the processes I use. I believe not stressing the wire and braiding a uniform “long” braid where the braid is not to tight is very important. Also rubbing and melting wax into the finished braid significantly improves low level detail resolution(dampens mechanical resonance?).

But I will come clean and tell you about my “Mystery Process”, which I don’t think is mentioned in the Spec Sheet, but I will add now that I am telling you. I use a Jewelers File and a Small Tool Grinder to remove the Gold Plate on the outer body of the Plug and in the conductor mounting hole in the Plug’s Center Pin. That way I am soldering a “tinned” copper conductor to tinned copper without the gold getting in the way. Yes, I can hear a difference and the low level detail resolution and instrument voicing is better. "

Barbeque + itouch + beer + wifi = .... its a pretty damn good sunday barbecue...
 
May 24, 2009 at 9:40 PM Post #149 of 168
Quote:

Originally Posted by pdupiano /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Finally got around to reading this thread.... and the OP's initial remarks' questions come from the site that Les Garten Points out (the chimera labs). Well ... I'm a bit skeptical of the information written on that site especially after reading this under the faq section. I think if you litz braid (4 braid-round) the wire you won't develop cross talk in fact you'd minimize it as opposed to starquad configurations. I'll post a more detailed reasoning thats quasi-scientific (ie. dumbded down science) but here is the portion of the faq that makes me question all the info provided from that site. If you can understand what's wrong with these quotes, you'll quickly dismiss a good majority of what's been brought up in this thread. While this thread has raised questions, I think a good majority of hurt feelings and yelling matches have misled people. Please read the original post, and the original poster's source material.

From:
Chimera Labs Frequently Asked Questions

"Do you use some special tweaks or parts on your Advantage Interconnects, that will make them sound better than cables I build using your wire, solder and information?
Yes, in some cases my cables do sound better to some DIY efforts. I always
recommend that constructors read the Advantage Specification Sheet. It clearly details all the materials I use and covers almost all of the processes I use. I believe not stressing the wire and braiding a uniform “long” braid where the braid is not to tight is very important. Also rubbing and melting wax into the finished braid significantly improves low level detail resolution(dampens mechanical resonance?).

But I will come clean and tell you about my “Mystery Process”, which I don’t think is mentioned in the Spec Sheet, but I will add now that I am telling you. I use a Jewelers File and a Small Tool Grinder to remove the Gold Plate on the outer body of the Plug and in the conductor mounting hole in the Plug’s Center Pin. That way I am soldering a “tinned” copper conductor to tinned copper without the gold getting in the way. Yes, I can hear a difference and the low level detail resolution and instrument voicing is better. "

Barbeque + itouch + beer + wifi = .... its a pretty damn good sunday barbecue...



If you converse with Dennis he'll tell you about the braid and the Long and the short of it.

The exposing the Copper to solder to, I can see all kinds of ways to go at OR support that statement.

.
 
May 25, 2009 at 1:06 AM Post #150 of 168
Well If I remember correctly, gold plating does nothing to the sound. Its done to prevent oxidation. His constant refferal to "Low Level Detail resolution" for both taking off the gold plating and rubbing wax on the connectors... is well BS. In so far as I'm concerned Low Level Detail Resolution is a meaningless term. To think that wax affects the sound is just beyond any electronic theory. Unless were moving beyond the world of physics I'd dismiss his statement regarding the wax (don't forget we are talking about stationary RCA plugs here, not headphone cables). Then when he uses the EXACT same "low level detail resolution" for removing the gold plating... well let's just say I'm suspicious to say the least.

When we open up data transfer cables (ie lan cables) we find twisted pairs. These twisted pairs are like one channel + ground in terms of headphones. They are twisted in an effort to make sure that the noise is "evenly" applied to both cables (to ensure they are in differential mode). Now take two of those twisted pairs, rotate one at 90 degrees and manage to find a way to put them together. Take a VERY close look at the Litz 4 braid:
http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/100_0945.jpg

Notice that one pair (the black or red) is the hot + ground. This form of braiding does the EXACT same thing as twisted pairs in the data cables. At some length, there is a 1/2 turn so that the wire exposed to the noise keeps changing back and forth. This is the same for both sets (red and black). Now when we're dealing with cross talk what we have to worry about is the magnetic field caused by the wires. The magnetic field is perpendicular to the flow of electrons, so what we have is here:

Magnetic field: || || || || || || || || || || ||
Wire: =============================
Magnetic Field: || || || || || || || ||

you can imagine a magnetic field that moves in a clockwise direction around the wire. This magnetic field when next to another wire, will induce another current. In this case it induces cross talk in the wires. so now lets examine the braid again. There are two points of interest (relative to one set of wires, either black or red):
1. Wires intersect
2. Wires do not intersect

Lets take the black wires for example
When the wires intersect you have the black wires intersecting in the middle with the red wires on opposite sides.
We have two opposing magnetic fields, one rotating in the clockwise direction and one rotating in a counterclock wise direction, so they end up canceling each other out for the black wires.

When the black wires do not intersect and we have the red wires in the middle, we have the magnetic field on the black wires inducing crosstalk on the red wires. But once again the induced field from one side is canceled out by the other. So what you end up getting is a net result of zero.

This is for Standard L/R/G audio When using a balanced set up, you actually have crosstalk taking place... BUT it doesn't matter because of the differential mode/operation of your equipment. In fact the 4litz braid is probably your best option for balanced set up because what you have is a constantly induced field on all 4 wires. The red wires induce crosstalk on the black wires, and the black wires induce crosstalk on the red wires, but when you look at the differential on both ends, all the noise cancels out and all you are left with is the signal itself. The real issue with balanced set ups is that the wires MUST, MUST be the same length, and you MUST keep a constant pitch with the braiding. Otherwise you will get crosstalk that will not cancel out when you look at the differences.

Hope that helps
 

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